In the thread on Albas, a couple of people mentioned that most of the very good whistle players no longer post on C&F. That got me wondering who were (are) those folks, why they left, and where they went.
I think someone also said s/he could recognize the posts of the better whistlers, and respond to them. Um . . . how?
Thoughts?
I mentioned about the better players being recognizable. Most of the folks who have browsed the board for a while recognize them by their username, but there’s a way to listen for yourself and see who’s good. Browse over to the Clips n Snips page and listen to the songs there. The page gives the song title, who submitted it and what whistle they played. It’s a great resource.
Ah, but what of the many very good whistle players who may not post to Clips & Snips? (not saying I am one…If I had to give an honest assessment of my ability, I’d have to say “not too bad after a few beers…on the audience’s part, that is”…but I bet they’re out there).
Redwolf
Um… no offense to anyone who posts to Clips and Snips, but 99% percent of the posts on that board should not be considered “good whistle playing”. Having listened to the posts on that board on many occasions I have found that the tunes are out of time, out of tune, poorly phrased, bad versions of tunes, poorly/improperly ornamented, poorly phrased and usually very simple tunes.
Now I have to give everyone who is brave enough to post to that board credit… there is no way that one can just become a good player overnight. It takes a lot of practice. These posters are just new to the instrument and are improving in their playing slowly and steadily.
However, I get frustrated when they, or others on the board, think that the posts are “good playing”. Almost without exception they are not. I just dont want newbies to be mislead into thinking that this is the kind of playing one should emulate. It’s not. Buy some good CDs - Mary Bergin, Gavin Whelan, etc, and learn from them, or find a good teacher. Learning from bad playing just reinforces bad playing. It’s the wrong path to follow.
To those posting to Clips and Snips - keep it up and fair play to you for having the bravery to post there. Keep working hard and enjoying the music.
My two cents,
Chris
I don’t necessarily think that the best players have gone. . .certainly some of the more frequent posters have left. After a while you have to admit that we get surly answering the same questions, and its best that we mosey along before we sour other people.
YOu can’t tell who is a good player by the variety of instrument they play, the quality of their responses on the board, their opinions or the number of posts. You can only tell from listening to them play. I’ve met some great people through the board, and players who range from mediocre to phenomenal, wonderful collectors, people with a lot of knowledge and a little skill.
But I bet there are some really really good players who only post occasionally, and never record at all!
IMHO, to become better, you need not only listen to good players (Mary Bergin and others), but also listen to others, no matter how good or bad. If you don’t know what is ‘poor’, whats the use of aspiring to be ‘good’?
I’ve recently started to contribute to ‘Clips..’- in the ‘New players’ section,i might add(!)not because i consider my playing to be worth bring to the attention of the whole world out there,but simply for fun and the feeling of ‘taking part’.This has been previously discussed in several threads.Some good points there from Chris and Tygress(another Borges fan,i see).I too have noticed that some of the ‘veteran’ posters haven’t contributed ‘clips’(unless they are using pseudonyms-lol!)Any chance of them rising to the challenge?. certainly agree that you have to listen to the ‘Greats’ to get an idea of what to aspire to, but for me whistling is a pleasant and absorbing obsessi..sorry,passtime(just as well,if i wanted to be a ‘pro’,i’d be starving in a garrett! lol!!)
A few of the self-appointed “better players” have stomped off in a huff, slamming the figurative door behind them. You can probably find out who they are by searching threads from a few months back.
Aren’t we confusing good players and collectors here, Cees?
Bloomfield,
Notice I said “self-appointed” better players. But collectors too.
As this relates to the topic we’ve
been discussing on the Alba post I’ll
make one quick comment. Many of the
acknowledged top professionals have never
or rarely posted in this forum to the best
of my knowledge. They are to busy with gigs,
recording, and teaching I guess. I could be mistaken but I challenge anyone to name a really top pro (In Europe or the USA)who
contributes on (at least weekly)
regular basis.
So, it’s not where have they gone but
they’ve never been here. Good players
we have plenty of. Professionals with
critically acclaimed recordings is
another story. I hope I’m wrong on
this but I don’t think so.
KELHORN MIKE
On 2002-08-08 02:28, Caoimhin wrote:
IMHO, to become better, you need not only listen to good players (Mary Bergin and others), but also listen to others, no matter how good or bad. If you don’t know what is ‘poor’, whats the use of aspiring to be ‘good’?
But if all you have for an example is the Clips and Snips stuff, which is apparently not great whistle playing, even though I don’t know that for myself, then you can’t really get any better than that, can you?
Conal O Grada contributes to the flute forum on a fairly regular basis - and not just to promote his Scoiltrad enterprise, either.
John Kerr
I wouldn’t say that the Clips & Snips stuff isn’t good whistle playing (I’ve found some stuff there that is very lovely indeed). And I do think that it helps to hear players from across the board…yes, even rank beginners. I think the only mistake would be to assume that, just because something is posted there, it’s automatically brilliantly played and something to emulate…people post there for a lot of reasons (and don’t for a lot of reasons too…my only excuse for not having a tune or two up there is I have no clue how to make a recording on my computer!).
Redwolf
This is good stuff!
Let me first reiterate that I have absolutely nothing against anyone who posts to Clips and Snips. In fact I admire them for their bravery. I, for one, have been promising Loren that I’d post a tune or two for a LONG time now, but I’m such a perfectionist about my music that I really don’t want to post anything until I feel like I’ve really got something to show. On the other hand, posting playing that might not be that good, and then asking for input, can be a very good way of learning to improve one’s own playing.
I did post two tunes about a year and a half ago - The Ruby Waltz and Zippy’s Polkas - both with me on whistle and my mom on piano. I suppose they were both fairly decent, but certainly nothing I’d want to show off now 
I tend to divide my years of learning as “Pre-Ireland” and “Post-Ireland”. Going to Ireland really, really, really humbled me. I witnessed 7 year olds playing the whistle in ways I only dream of. I realized two really important things - 1) My playing was really bad; 2) I HAD to stop learning from sheet music. I think it is absolutely essential that one learn by ear until they are at least a good player, if not an excellent one. THEN they can transfer the feeling they’ve learned playing by ear to tunes they learn from sheet music, but only because they already know how to play the music. The sheet music IS misleading to anyone but an already good player - and that’s a fact.
When I listen to the clips on Clips and Snips I can tell immediately that most of the tunes were learned from sheet music. How can I tell? Because they sound nothing like the tunes are supposed to sound. It strikes me that if one were to learn a tune by ear, from a CD of a good player, or from a good player who taught it to them in person, one would also recognize if they were playing it completely wrong. Not so with sheet music. The only reference for “right” and “wrong” is a bunch of dots which are subject to a wide range of interpretation. I know this because I sang with a 60 person touring choir for four years, and what we sang was NOT what was on the page, but what the conductor (and ourselves) interpreted it as. Think for a minute about reading words. I may know the Latin alphabet, and I may be able to read English perfectly well, but if I were to read French, which I don’t understand, I would surely pronounce the words all wrong, though they are written using the same letters. The same is true with music. A classical musician can not be expected to play jazz properly from sheet music, nor should someone who is not deeply learned in Irish music expect to play Irish music properly from sheet music. It simply can not be done. Lest anyone be confused or offended by what I have said, sheet music is a superb tool, especially once one has learned how to play Irish music properly, but it is not the way to LEARN Irish music. unless one wants to end up sounding stilted, artificial and just not Irish.
My 3.14 cents,
Chris
Oh yeah, about pro whistle players - Paul McGratten has a pretty strong presence, especially on the flute forum. John McSherry was posting on the piping forum for while. Brendan Ring is a fairly regular contributor. Joannie Madden posted from time to time back in the day (1998-1999). Why don’t more of them post? Because they are busy playing their whistles instead of answering for the zillionth time " What would whistle should I buy?".
Chris
I don’t consider myself as a “top notch” whistler by ANY means, but I will give an example of why my posts have dropped off:
Dave… does this mean the pipes are getting dusty?
On 2002-08-08 17:11, ChrisLaughlin wrote:
sheet music is a superb tool, especially once one has learned how to play Irish music properly, but it is not the way to LEARN Irish music. unless one wants to end up sounding stilted, artificial and just not Irish.
Here’s what I do.
(Disclaimer: I am a slightly pudgy housewife in Oklahoma. I have never even heard of a whistle until April of this year. I am certainly not a professional and can barely read music!)
But here’s what I do. I started wanting to learn to play the whistle after listening to John Mock play. I wanted to play Be Thou My Vision just like him! Ha ha! Well, I didn’t even know how to begin so I got the sheet music, learned it, then tried to imitate the way Mr. Mock plays. I couldn’t do it very well. (He’s just so good!) Then I tried playing Danny Boy along with a CD…I got the sheet music, learned it and then altered it to fit with the CD. It sounded pretty good! Not fabulous, of course…but I get a great deal of personal enjoyment out of it. The person playing the whistle was Sam Levine.
I use the sheet music purely as a guide to get me going. I find a tune I like on a CD (or a suggestion that someone makes on this thread) and I listen to the midi sometimes just to get a basic idea…then I go from there.
Now if I could just get The Blarney Pilgrim down!
Kim
I’m thinking of the vast difference between what I consider a truly wonderful whistle recording, and what I want to sound like. I wonder if I’m unusual that way.
I mean, I listen to a wonderful recording where the whistle rings out loud and clear, with all those glorious ornamentations. . .
. . .and all I really want to do is keep up with the group, NOT stand out in any way, still hear what I’m playing but don’t want to be heard much outside my immediate vicinity. I scarecly THINK of ornamenting; thats a luxury when you just want to hit the basic notes at the same time everyone else is, drop out for a breath at an appropriate moment, hope that the part B you’re about to play goes with the part A that you’re actually playing.
The payoff comes when you do one of your favorite sets, and it seems to go a little slower, a little crisper, and you seem to have all the time in the world to try a little varietion, throw in a little something else, and you realize that it wasn’t slower at all…you were keeping up without half the effort you used to use.