piper grip has got me down

Whistle
1

I’ve been working on improving my low whistle skills a bit, which includes learning the piper grip. I can play my Dixon low d with the “regular” grip (for want of a better term), but it does tire out my fingers. And since I want to upgrade to a better low D at some point, it seems necessary–Most low d’s seem to have wider hole spacing than the Dixon.

Anyway, I’ve been playing for around 12 years, and the piper grip makes me sound like a beginner again. Frustrating. I know, I know, the solution is practice and it will come. Hope it comes fast. I haven’t squeaked and squawked this much since I started learning to use an elk call. :laughing:

Tom

2

Good luck with that Tom. It just takes a matter of a few weeks perseverance, in my experience, to stop the squawking! Some people suggest using the pinky for the d and this is tempting at first as it narrows the stretch a bit. I personally wouldn’t do it as the ring finger tip pad gradually makes a good seal and speeds up. It is a great instrument which I can still only produce decent sounding slow airs on - haven’t got the dexterity to make anything fast sound good yet. However, six months in with pipers grip and I find it comfortable across a range of low d whistles (Burke, Chieftain, Alba, Syn, Overton).

Stephen

3

This is why I do not play my low D very often because I don’t like feeling like a beginner every time. I really need to make an effort to play the hell out of it for a few weeks to get to the point where I enjoy it.

4

That’s why i play flute, it’s much easier if you’re lucky to find a good flute.

5

Well, I think that’ what is driving me crazy–I CAN play the thing with the fingertip pads. It just isn’t the BEST way. The temptation to go back to the old way is large. But it will be worth it in the long run. Maybe I need to just run down to the corner convenience store and buy that Overton and get it over with…

6

Once you become more comfortable with piper’s grip and your whistle, you will be able to relax, and it starts to require much less effort to play and seal the holes. Consciously thinking “relax” when you are playing sometimes helps also.

One other point too-you may find that experimenting a bit with the angle your hands contact the whistle, and also what vertical angle you hold the whistle can also affect your comfort greatly. Whatever works for you and your anatomy will probably reveal itself in time and become second nature with repetition. I’m just starting to come back to low whistles after a break since playing mostly flute for a while, and I had to ease into it also again. But I’m enjoying playing the whistles very much again too. They are unique from the flute in sound and playability-nice to have them both, no doubt!

And have fun with it-don’t make it a chore-it’s music!

Barry

7

What’s always killed me when attempting a piper’s grip is inability to clearly seal the holes, especially the two and three holes (left hand). It’ll be fine for the first bar or so, perhaps longer on a slow piece like “Hard Times”, but eventually I’ll start failing to get a good seal and the notes will be either breathy or nonexistent.

It could be the size of the holes. although the problem is even bigger on a chanter. I kind of write it off to having short, thich fingers, but to be honest, I really don’t know why I can’t do it.

FWIW, the whistles involved (same problem on all 3) are an Overton Low D, Dixon two-piece low D and a Chieftain Low G.

8

Maybe I need to just run down to the corner convenience store and buy that Overton and get it over with…

You mean you have Overton’s in your corner convenience store?.. And I thought Australia was the lucky country!!!

9

I play with fingertip pads and pinkie on the low D. i have since I first started playing..I got a low D within weeks of getting my first whistle, and there wasn’t any real “internet law” to tell me I had to play the thing a certain way. I realize not everyone can play it with the pinkie like that, but it works for me, and I can play up to speed.

I’ve considered trying to convert to piper’s grip (and I’ve given it a try a few times to see how it worked), but you know…if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

I used to feel weak at the low D, same as several people here have mentioned, but I started carrying mine around and tooting on it (at red lights, inside stores, etc) instead of a high D, and it didn’t take me too long to get completely comfortable. I just needed regular playing.

10

I’m in the same situation, at least with my upper hand.

I’ve played Highland pipes for 35 years now, using, as most GHB players do, the pads on the middle joints of the three longer fingers on the lower hand to seal the holes but using the pads on the end joints on the upper hand.

So when I started playing a Low D as my primary whistle a bit over a year ago the “piper’s grip” came naturally on the low hand but not on the upper.

And I’ve paid the price as my upper hand tires while the lower stays comfortable.

I’ve tried and tried to get my upper hand to adjust but those darn fingers want to slowly creep back, retreat toward their accustomed positions.

When I am doing the upper-hand piper’s grip correctly I can sure feel how much more relaxed my hand is but I do get those squeaks and squawks.

11

I may be lucky in having medium length, broad-ish fingers on a broad-ish palm, which probably makes these things easier for me than for some folk… FWIW, then, I use top-joint pads on L hand, kinda modified flute position with no tube contact lower on L1 as on flute - it is quite comfy and relaxed and no strain ensues. My R hand goes to a kind of semi-pipers’ position, not because I can’t span/seal the tone-holes with the end pads (I can, no problem - see pic below), but for a more comfortable wrist angle at that arm-extension from the body, which necessitates a cocked wrist (thumb-side of hand tipped upwards) if you try to use a hold that brings the fingers in with their long axes roughly perpendicular to the long axis of the tube (as on flute R hand). I put R3 end-pad on hole, R1 middle of 2nd pad on hole and R2 as it falls naturally between those anchor points, just below the crease of the upper joint on the outer part of the 2nd pad, which brings the fingers to the tube at nearer 45 degrees and straightens the R wrist… I find this perfectly natural and switch between standard “Rockstro” type hold on flute, standard all upper pads on high whistles and this compromise/mixed posture on low whistles…

You can see my “semi-pipers’” position (as just described) in exaggerated circumstances on this video clip I did for another thread on a low Bb tube or on low D whistle on YouTube.

NB, I do not have massive hands (thumb-tip to little finger-tip full spread = 9"/23cm, palm width at base of fingers = 3.75"/9.5cm) though they are quite flexible.

OK, afterthought: here are some pics on this I used to have up in an old thread, but they were on a now-defunct hosting account so have disappeared (or I’d just have linked the old thread!) - so I’ve loaded 'em up again:

Low D from front, “semi-pipers’” (R1&2 maybe a bit less laterally advanced than I described above):




Low D with an all-finger-tip-pads only hold - note awkward angle of R wrist compared to 1st pic above, though spanning the holes is no problem:




And my “semi-pipers’” hold applied to a low Bb tube with offset & raised 3rd finger holes - I probably advance R1&2 a bit more now than when I took this picture as I have lately noticed strain in my R wrist more and to relieve that straighten it by tipping the near side of the hand towards the tube, which pushes those fingers forward/across the tube more, pivoting on R3’s pad on its tone-hole:




Just for comparison, my normal hold on a high whistle from front and side angles:




Note: thumb positions make quite a difference too - experiment with moving your thumbs around, both up/down tube and laterally around it, watching how the changes affect your hand posture, until you find an optimum compromise for comfortable hand/wrist angle and finger-approach to tube and secure support of the whistle.

Also, I think that if you advance all 3 R hand fingers to use the 2nd knuckle-pad on the tone-holes, that actually reduces your available span and re-twists the wrist - try making small adjustments and watching/analysing their postural/mechanical effects.

(Edited to make a small additional note and expand some of the original comment/description…)

12

Nice, Jem. See my step-by-step here for additional suggestions:

https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/pipers-grip-step-by-step/63881/1

13

I feel your pain with learning the Piper’s Grip. I too am in the process of getting used to it. I’ve been at it for a couple weeks now, and surprisingly it’s becoming somewhat natural.

The whistle still sounds less than professional but it’s getting better, and the speed is picking up a bit too.

I’m not at that point where I can keep up with a group of musicians, but it’s getting better. I think there is hope. I think in the end, at least for me, the Piper’s Grip is the way to go.

14

Hi jem

Another Bleazey fan I see.


David

15

Nope. I have played several Bleazey whistles and rate them quite highly, though they’re a bit variable. So far as I know, Bleazeys are cylindrical bore. My boxwood high D is a conoid bore by Jon Swayne (pipes maker and player, of Blowzabella fame). It is still the best whistle I’ve ever played…

16

Hi jem

Thx for the correction, I have not seen, never mind played, a Swayne whistle, although his Northumbrian half long pipes are nice to play.

My Bleazey D is in yew and is the best whistle I have played also, all the serious whistle and flute players I know like it as well. But my favourite one is a Bleazey A in olive wood which is the hardest whistle to play that I have - but when you hit the sweet spot in the second octave it sounds heavenly.

David