While I"m on the subject of low D redesign ideas, has anyone ever tried keying the D and G holes? I have a Dixon and an Overton (and temporarily a Susato, but I’m selling it). Both are supposed to be relaxed reach, but my hands are small enough that they still require a piper’s grips which I don’t find all that comfortable.
I’ve tried both whistles and it occurred to me that the other four holes are easily covered with the finger pads without a pipers grip. Only the two I mentioned really need a finger stretch. So, it then occurred to me that if those two holes were keyed (press to close, lift to open), the whistle would be not only playable but quite comfortable without a piper’s grip or aching hands.
It works fine, Chuck, but adding keys adds a LOT of expensive development and labour time. Not only that, making keys that close reliably requires profiling the hole so that it can be valved with a pad of either cork, or of fishskin-covered felt. If the hole isn’t completely closed, you get squeaks and all sorts of objectionable sounds.
Without sounding my own horn too much, I would suggest that you check the reviews of the Serpent Python Low D and Low G whistles. I have small hands, so I made an especial effort to make those lows playable by almost anyone, without piper’s grip.
Chuck, I just got a Serpent Python Low F a couple of days ago. Amazingly easy reach - judging by the photo on the website, the Low D is just as easy (for a low D, at least) - it looks to be easier than my Dixon Low D, which isn’t too bad either. Responsive, too - I haven’t been able to play fast enough that it couldn’t keep up (this last may reflect on me more than the Python, but I can easily play faster than the Dixon can respond).
But be aware that these are massive whistles - not too heavy to play, even for extended periods (I probably put a couple of hours into mine each of the last couple of nights) but enough you notice it. And after I put it down and picked up my Gen Bb it felt more like a high G
I know at least two low D whistles designed to play with fingerends, not piper’s grip.
These are Bleazey’s and Yvon Le Coant’s. Both have a conical bore and smallish holes. The first one I don’t own, and tried only once and briefly. Could do.
The latter I own; the 3rd holes are offset. Even if I play it with piper’s grip, I know I could fingertip it (tried and did easily), but now I got so used to piper’s grip I prefer it down to a low G or even A…
Now, what you wouldn’t get is the low wind requirements you insist upon.
May I suggest recording on a high whistle, then doctoring it with Amazing Octave Downer software?
I know I am still in the beginner classification, but I find it very difficult to half hole on our whistles that have smallish holes. Just does not seem to be enough room to hit it just right. Either it plays off on the higher or lower note, but not at the intended half step.
Agreed, but here the choice is not so clear-cut, being between:
large holes AND piper’s grip
smaller holes AND finger tips
Btw, lack of precision in half-holing is a problem with many people (like me).
The “pig-nosed” lower holes on recorders were precisely designed to solve it, even if they don’t work much better in lower octave.
I guess it’s stupid to re-iterate the advice to work at piper’s. You know what’s good for you. I just found that once I got the hang of piper’s grip I started applying it to my smaller whistles as well–personal preference.
I seem to recall a thread about a month or two about putting keys on those two holes, but I think it was with regard to a bamboo flute. It was an interesting design for the key. Also, Siccama-system flutes did this about 100+ years ago. However, there is always the issue that keys are not as responsive as your fingers, so it could interfere with the crispness of your playing, especially on ornaments.
Suposidly the jubilee whistle has put on a soft type pad that can be closed either slightly or completely by pressure, to better mimic he action of a real finger.
I wonder if I could somehow get ahold of a real finger to use for a pad? Almost anything can be had on the devil-net one way or another…
Ps. Ebay doesn’t allow the selling of body parts. (any more)
I do not own a low whistle, but I keep thinking about acquiring one. The issue of reach concerns me also because I too have small hands (more accurately, short fingers.) I don’t think I have seen it discussed, but does half-holing become problematic with the piper’s grip?
Not really. Fingering and covering the wholes is generally one of the two big issues of switching to a low D (breathing/breath support being the other). It might be hard for you if you use Mary-Bergin-style fingertip playing on a high D, because you wouldn’t be able to get away with that on a low D.
or play a key that you can handle, but wich sound you love.
i believe you’"ll get much more satisfaction in playing a low F of your favourite make,
then playing an “easy to reach low D”
As has been mentioned, keywork adds considerably to the price of an instrument. What was not mentioned is that it’s not a one-time cost.
Talk to a flute player some time about key adjustments and re-padding… Wait, on second thought, don’t. You probably don’t really want to hear a three-hour rant and wail about the cost of tune-ups and repaddings.
The spacing between the 5th and 6th holes are further aggravated by the distance your right hand is from you, and the resulting angle on your wrist. (I can fingertip a bass-Bb, but my wrist gets sore pretty quickly.) This is why Irish flutes, with essentially the same hole spacing as a low-D whistle, can actually be easier for those with small hands. On a flute, the wrist is almost straight, giving it a much easier angle.
Well, I’ll tell ya, and I’m sure I’ve stated it here on the board before at some point… My hands are pretty small, and I’m only just now getting my hands stretched out enough after giving in and practicing on my pipers grip.
What I used to do, rather efficiently I might add, was skip my ring fingers and use my pinkys as my third finger. Surprisingly I had almost zero difficulty ‘transposing’ my fingering so to speak, it just laid in naturally, and I have no trouble switching back and forth either. VERY VERY comfortable grip. Extremely.
Reason for going ahead and learning to play with a pipers grip and proper first 3 fingers??? Can’t QUITE get the same speed and still stay crisp and precise using the above method. So there you have it. Great for medium speed jigs and reels down to slow aires, but to really get with it I’m having to switch off.
Just an idea for someone. Might even be able to master the technique better than I did (wouldn’t be difficult ) and get it up to speed and precision (sp?) and the whole bit.
Take care,
John
P.S. Oh yeah, it was still a ‘pipers style’ grip, but it lays your hands straight in line and comfy. First two fingers use the middle pads to cover the holes, the pinkys use the end pads or fingertips. Interesting … try it for fun if nothing else.
HONK, HONK Speaking of which… Hey Serp, you an me gotta swap metal here pretty soon. Get 'yer butt down here for a pint already will ya? We’ll swap stories and I’ll even dig into the fellow whistlesmith bag for ye.
