Anyone out there will small hands that plays the low d? Do you use the standard piper’s grip which almost everyone says is essential? My hands are rather small and due to carpel tunnel i have lost some of the flexibility. But I really want to play this low-d and will keep at it. Just wondering if there was any other small handed low-d players out there and what there gripping solution was.
thanks,
ed
I have small hands and play a Howard low D. I use the piper’s grip and it’s still quite a stretch. I only use it for slow airs or accompanying singers and never play anything fast on it (I can’t maintain the stretch at speed). If I try more than one tune or set at a time then the pain really hits the back of my hand during the second.
My fingers are long, but too fond of each other to create the span needed to cover the last hole with finger #4. I have adapted by using my pinky for the last hole on anything Bb and lower. On a large whistle it takes care to be sure the hole is completely covered by a small finger.
I’ve seen 10 year old children able to use a piper’s grip perfectly well on an uilleann chanter and they had much smaller hands than I would have expected would be able to do it. I honestly think it comes down to practice and relaxation.
I also think the term piper’s “grip” is sometimes misconstrued. You really don’t want to “grip” the whistle much at all, use only as much pressure as it takes to keep it stable and from falling out of your hands. Anything tighter is wasteful and can lead to pain and problems in short order.
If anyone struggles with using piper fingering techniques, I’d suggest finding a piper close to you and sitting down with them for a few minutes to go over prober fingure ‘posture’. It’s not hard, but it’s not always intuative either. Many many times I’ve seen people who have thought they were using the correct piper fingering, but in reality they were only about half way there - fingers still bent the wrong way, not using enough or the right areas of the finger pads etc.
Low whistles will almost always have larger tone holes than a chanter will of course, but the principals are the same. I’ve never found a low whistle I couldn’t play outright because the holes were too big…though some are certainly easier than others. Stick with it and try several low whistles out before you buy whenever possible. You might be supprised at how easy it comes with a little instruction and careful selection of a whistle suited to your playing style.
It’s also possible to get a Low D that requires less spread (I think the real problem is the gap between the two bottom RH holes - usually much greater than that between RH1 and RH2).
I have broad palms (but short, skinny, fingers) and can play my Dixon Low D with a high whistle grip. (I usually use a modified piper’s grip). But the travelling Weston Low D that I currently have on loan absolutely requires piper’s grip - the overall spread isn’t a lot greater, but the difference all seems to be between RH 2 & RH3.
Besides Dixon, I believe that Burke, Serpent, and Jubilee music all make “small hands” low D’s. For that matter, the Overton low D’s I’ve had a chance to (briefly) play didn’t require quite the stretch of the Weston or the Susato Low D (the Weston is a lot easier than the Susato, I think).
Or you could go with a low whistle in the range A-Eb - that’d give you the low whistle sound without as much stretch.
Again, I don’t know if I can stress enough the need to learn and use proper grip on low whistles. You can develop some pretty serious and painful repetitive stress injuries otherwise.
Can you use your fingertips to play a low d? Sure on some models. But then you wouldn’t want to run a marathon on your tip-toes either. Just because you could doesn’t mean you should.
Proper finger positioning and posture whn playing is NOT hard to learn guys. You risk an awful lot otherwise. Some whistlesmiths offer a whistle that has a shorter spacing of the tone holes, but there is usually a trade off of tone and playability so do a little homework first and make sure you know what you’re getting and that it will have the absolute sound you’re looking for.
And I agree - Susato whistles, partucularly their low models are some of the most uncomfortable and sometimes unplayable whistles out there.
Actually, I agree with Brian - for the low whistles, some variant of “piper’s grip” (adapted to suit your hand and the whistle) is the way to go.
That being said, I think there are at least two things variables that affect playability - finger hole size, and finger hole spread. I don’t mind large finger holes, within reason. I find the combination of small finger holes and large spread difficult.
On my Serpent Low F and Dixon D, I find a full-out piper’s grip doesn’t seal efficiently - it puts the bony points of my fingers on the two upper RH holes. So I use a slightly modified version - the bend of the first joints of RH1 and RH2 cover those holes rather than the “pad” of the second joint. For the Weston, a “classic” piper’s grip works better. I do play my Serpent Low A with a high-whistle grip - but it’s got a high-whiste-like hole spacing (just has larger finger holes).
But in any case, find a hand position that you can play without straining. And if the only way you can (comfortably) play a Low D is to get a small-hands model, that may be best. Or go for a Low F 
I already have repetitive stress injuries. This is part of my problem. After carpel tunnel surgieries on both hands I do not have the finger spread I used to. I have a Kerry Low-D. One of the newer ones. the beggining line. Nice whistle. Nice tone. But the spread on the bottom is difficult for me. Don’t think I am trying to get out of using the piper’s grip. I am not. But the fact of the matter is the ‘true’ grip just might not be possible for me.
i would try a low F, i wouldn’t play a whistle that whore me out and where i couldn’t play jigs and reels on. i would use transcribe or roni’s slowdowner to put the music in the right key.
or buy a low G and you don’t need to half hole to play in D.
and i would choose the whistle i liked here http://www.tinwhistletunes.com/clipssnip/index.htm
Just as with a pipe chanter, the “true” grip IS piper’s. It’s not a friggin’ recorder, it’s not a flute either, but a low whistle. Look at the masters.
BTW, Phil, the guy who designed your whistle, only advises piper’s grip. And boy, he can play. It’s designed for it. Wanna fingertip? go Tenor recorder–for they’re designed for it.
The low whistle goes straight bore, and bold breath, and large holes, and half-fingerings and slurs. The tenor recorder goes small holes, and asthmatic whisper blow, and cross-fingerings and staccato. Different instruments, period.
Finally and for Pizza’s sake, the only “true” grip is the one YOU find comfortable. What counts is the blurdy sound, and please help us god against any academism.
Zub…may I steer you away, then, from Grey Larsen’s manifesto.
="ZubivkaJust as with a pipe chanter, the “true” grip IS piper’s. It’s not a friggin’ recorder, it’s not a flute either, but a low whistle. Look at the masters.
BTW, Phil, the guy who designed your whistle, only advises piper’s grip. And boy, he can play. It’s designed for it. Wanna fingertip? go Tenor recorder–for they’re designed for it.
The low whistle goes straight bore, and bold breath, and large holes, and half-fingerings and slurs. The tenor recorder goes small holes, and asthmatic whisper blow, and cross-fingerings and staccato. Different instruments, period.
Finally and for Pizza’s sake, the only “true” grip is the one YOU find comfortable. What counts is the blurdy sound, and please help us god against any academism.
So I guess the point of all that was to berate me for having the nerve to pick up a low-d with small hands and ask if anyone else had problems and had solved them? Should I ask forgiveness and do penance now? yeesh.
shadoe, I have fairly small hands, with chubby fingers - plus the beginnings of carpal tunnel. I bought my 1st Low D (a Dixon) last November. The squeaks and squawks were depressing. I can’t really feel the edges of the holes well on my right hand. I bought a Silkstone Alloy Low D that has worked much better, probably due to the ‘chamfered’ holes according to Thom Larson of The Whistle Shop. My fingers seal the holes more completely, so not as many squawks. I was also, at first, trying to use the 2nd joint on all 3 fingerholes. My niece, who has really long fingers tries to play her Low D like hi D, but uses her little finger for the ‘3rd’ hole each hand. Modify your grip in any way that works for you and thumb your nose at anyone who dares to tell you it’s not ‘the right way’.
Best of luck!
~Judy
By the way, practicing on the Silkstone with the piper’s grip has improved my playing on the Dixon, too. Both are good whistles (at least in my world).
Certainly not berate you.
I may talk funny, mostly because I don’t speak native English, but you sure could read through.
No-one berated you. Just telling there’s no such thing as a “true” grip, but the common consensus, proven by practice, is piper’s grip. The reason why is precisely because it’s easier. This doesn’t mean it’s plain easy from the start.
A search in this board archive would have shown you that most everyone has problems starting on a low D, and that these are generally a challenge, and not only stretch-wise. Breath control (pressure, velocity) and breathing are the next challenges.
Now, for some tips:
yeesh.
Same. The one quality needed to play low D is not finger reach, it’s patience. That one takes longer to master…
I’ll tak your word on it. Fortunately, ITM is not the alpha and omega of low whistling to me. Even there, the “pure drop” attitudes are not me pint o’ stout.
some great advice seems to be here! my two cents:
buy a reyburn . . . wonderful sound and with the offset holes and by using your right pinky no piper grip is neccesary. if you don’t like it you could trade it or sell it here.
Thanks for the advice all.
I think before I go buying another Low D I will hammer away on this one for awhile. hehe my whoa factor is confined at the moments to high D’s hehe. But I am sure that will change.
Anyway thanks again for tips.