Are all concert pitched pipes copies of rowsome pipes ,or what other pipes are copied.
Thanks
Kevin
i use the peter hunter patern pipes
Good question. Probably most concert chanters out there today are copies (or copies of copies) of Rowsome chanters.
There’s a great pipemaker here named Michael Hubbert who makes fine copies of an old Crowley chanter, which has a narrower bore and darker tone than the Rowsome design.
A reedmaker I know was once bewailing all of the modern chanters which are difficult or impossible to reed because they are made by clueless makers. His rant, or speech, went something like:
“Somebody decides he’s going to make chanters, so let’s say he has access to a fine Rowsome chanter and makes an accurate copy of it. But-here’s the rub- the style of reed he makes was one intended for a different style of chanter than the one he copied, so his chanter plays out of tune. So he starts moving the fingerholes around and maybe alters the length of the bore until he gets something that plays sort of in tune (but not nearly as well as the Rowsome would play with the correct type of reed). So now our new pipemaker has his design, which works to some extent, and he begins cranking out chanters.
Now another fellow decides to start making pipes, so he gets hold of a chanter made by the fellow above, and copies that. But, HIS style of reed is different yet again, so once again the chanter is altered to attempt to suit an improper reed.
Now extend that out three or four or five times, and you’ll see why so many chanters made today are hopelessly removed from anything that ever worked right.”
Think about that when a maker talks about “his design”. Whose design is it, really? At what remove?
That is a very good point i myself have owned several chanters by different makers of the rowsome design that where awfull.
after spending many years reedmaking and puting rushes up the bore and tape over finger holes to get the things to play in tune i decided i may give up.
i then was sent a peter hunter chanter for reeding.
this chanter had a sound that made my hair stand on the back of my neck.
pretty much like the one john mcsherry played on the youtube video doinna but this one has no tape and no rush and is perfectly in tune.
i knew from that moment that is the design.
ronan brown once said peter is the best maker that ever lived.
and that would be my oppinion also but then who am i
this chanter had a sound that made my hair stand on the back of my neck.
That sounds familiar…its pretty much impossible to find a better chanter than a Hunter, as far as I’m concerned. I have an old, beat up thing, not much to look at, but the best sounding concert pitch chanter I have ever heard. (disclaimer: this is just an opinion)
Whos patern did Peter Hunter make his chanter from .
Thanks
Kevin
peter i believe studied many old sets and came up with his own design. as you may have heard this design stands out miles above any that i have ever come acrross. i have peters drawings and find no need to alter anything i also use the same reed dimetions.
they just work and that is all that matters.
any other musicians i play with in my local session coment on the great sound and state of tuning.
I dont think I have ever heard a Peter Hunter chanter,are the chanters you make as good as the Peter Hunter chanters
Thanks
Kevin
i couldnt say’
they are in tune without the need for tape or rushing and have a great voice.
what i can say is they are much better than any i have owned in the past.
To revisit the original topic - well, there are copies and there are “copies”.
Many, if not most, concert pitch makers claim to be making “Rowsome copies” or “Rowsome based designs” - and by that they usually mean Leo. However, the resulting instruments are wildly different from one another. Panceltic’s point is a good one, and for various reasons these “Rowsome copies” are in many cases not really “copies” of anything anymore. That doesn’t make them bad designs, but it certainly indicates that a prospective buyer should take the “Rowsome copy” claim with a grain of salt.
Some makers use terms like “Rowsome based” or “Rowsome derived” and this seems at least a bit more accurate. Even so, until very recently most makers considered bell and throat measurements, plus some tonehole positions and rough sizes, to be sufficient accuracy for a “copy”. A bit of reed swapping will soon dispel this notion.
At the moment I know of no commercial maker who attempts to faithfully copy a specific Leo Rowsome chanter in all details of bore and toneholes. It may be a reasonable thing to do, particularly if detailed measurements of a “good” LR chanter are available, but the majority of makers seem to have made modifications either to suit their own style of reed, or in an attempt to lower the pitch of the chanter.
I am aware of three makers who are currently basing their concert pitch designs on a Willie Rowsome instrument, at least in part.
I don’t know of anyone attempting true Taylor chanter copies at the moment. Michael Hubbert is the only person I know of who cites a non-Rowsome (either Willie or Leo) original as his starting point (excepting those using designs given them by living makers, as below…).
Besides the makers who have started from a Leo Rowsome bore, there are several makers who are working from Cillian O’Briain’s designs. While Cillian greatly admires Rowsome chanters and the Rowsome sound, the physical dimensions of his chanters are not based on any Leo measurements - through arduous experimentation and revision he has developed a bore entirely his own (and shared this with a number more recent arrivals to the pipemaking scene).
Bill
“are the chanters you make as good as the Peter Hunter chanters”
Sort of a tricky question–answering “yes” would be tantamount to calling himself among the greatest makers who ever lived, in his own opinion. 
Is any pipemaker copying Liam O’Flynns rowsome pipes .I would say they would be good pipes to copy.
Kevin
People have been copying Stradivarius violins for centuries down to the most minute detail and nobody has yet managed to produce a violin that sounds exactly the same as a Stradivarius (although a handful have come close…). Making an exact copy of Liam O’Flynn’s set wouldn’t necessarily result in a set that sounds and behaves exactly like Liam O’Flynn’s set.
Rowsome-based chanters (note the phrasing) are probably the most common among modern makers, but I doubt if many follow Leo’s measurements to the letter, and even if they did, from what I’ve heard, Leo wasn’t exactly churning out carbon copies of the same chanter. Because he wasn’t flooded with orders from fledgling pipers in Michigan, Paraguay, and Rarotonga, he had a bit more time on his hands for trial and error experimentation than most modern makers would. One maker’s “Rowsome copy” might be noticeably different in character from another maker’s just because they were copied from different Rowsome chanters.
It’s also worth noting that some makers will copy the external features of a “classic” set of pipes and refer to this as a “_______ copy”, but the internal dimensions might be an entirely different ball game unless specifically requested.
I believe my late 90’s vintage K&Q chanter is a copy of Liam O’Flynns Rowsome. From what Benedict told me, I don’t think they are using that exact design currently.
My late 1970’s Quinn chanter is a painstaking copy of Liam O Flynn’s Rowsome chanter. Quinn was granted access to O Flynn’s chanter while O Flynn was on tour in the US at that time.
It’s a great chanter- I’ve played it on a regular basis since I bought it (I’m the original owner). The intonation is pretty amazing and the tone is very smooth over the compass of the instrument. One thing that I wish Quinn would have altered was that B flat and G sharp are very flat.
About Peter Hunter chanters, I have noticed on a number of piping CD’s where they list the make of the pipes that quite a few top players are using his chanters.
What players and on what cd’s can I hear hunter pipes.
Thanks
Kevin
Ronan Browne and Sean Potts on the Drones and the Chanters vol II.
You’ll also get plenty of soundclips on Peter’s website:
Really?When did he say this?
Just after he celebrated his free Hunter chanter by drinking twenty pints of guinness .
RORY
Do you think counterfiting of pipes could ever be a probelm.where copied pipes were passed off as made by the original maker.
Kevin