Ornamental Troubles
- scheky
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Ornamental Troubles
Ok, this isn't about having trouble PLAYING ornaments, but rather getting them in the right place so the music feels RIGHT.
Assuming that we all know the standard rules for ornamenting, there's always that ONE song or part of a song that simply eludes us as to what can be added to great effect.
For me, it's actually a simple one. Ballydesomnd #2. Specifically the A part (the B part has some lovely spots almost screaming for ornaments). It's just that stinkin A part. Aside from the double A (which is a good spot to grab a breath if needed or drop a tap/cut if not) every ornament I really try until the lower register G note just feels, well...forced.
Now, I'm a very vocal admirer of the "less if often better" school. That said, I also know I'm missing some opportunities to change up how that part sounds that I just can't think of.
So, with that diatribe aside, what's your personal Bugbear? Perhaps we as a group can recommend differing ways to play old favorites (that are still deeply tradtional) that give us no end of difficulty.
I can't be the only one. Ive even heard some not-so sweet accents on recorded works that just didn't quite sound right.
Assuming that we all know the standard rules for ornamenting, there's always that ONE song or part of a song that simply eludes us as to what can be added to great effect.
For me, it's actually a simple one. Ballydesomnd #2. Specifically the A part (the B part has some lovely spots almost screaming for ornaments). It's just that stinkin A part. Aside from the double A (which is a good spot to grab a breath if needed or drop a tap/cut if not) every ornament I really try until the lower register G note just feels, well...forced.
Now, I'm a very vocal admirer of the "less if often better" school. That said, I also know I'm missing some opportunities to change up how that part sounds that I just can't think of.
So, with that diatribe aside, what's your personal Bugbear? Perhaps we as a group can recommend differing ways to play old favorites (that are still deeply tradtional) that give us no end of difficulty.
I can't be the only one. Ive even heard some not-so sweet accents on recorded works that just didn't quite sound right.
- colomon
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Which Ballydesmond polka do you mean? Unfortunately, there are multiple "numbering systems", and (for instance) the one I think of as #2 is not the one my wife thinks of as #2.
Sol's Tunes (new tune 2/2020)
- scheky
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You are correct
X: 1
T: Ballydesmond #2
M: 2/4
L: 1/8
Q: 300
R: Polka
F:http://www.qmcorp.net/webabc/bigfolder/cce-session.abc 2006-06-13 18:26:46 UT
K: Ador
EA AB|cd e2|G>F GA|GE ED|
EA AB|cd e>f|ge dB|A2 A2 :|
a>g ab|ag ef|g>f ga|ge ed|
ea ab| ag e>f|ge dB|A2 A2 :|
X: 1
T: Ballydesmond #2
M: 2/4
L: 1/8
Q: 300
R: Polka
F:http://www.qmcorp.net/webabc/bigfolder/cce-session.abc 2006-06-13 18:26:46 UT
K: Ador
EA AB|cd e2|G>F GA|GE ED|
EA AB|cd e>f|ge dB|A2 A2 :|
a>g ab|ag ef|g>f ga|ge ed|
ea ab| ag e>f|ge dB|A2 A2 :|
- TonyHiggins
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Put aside that abc version of the tune and listen to other versions or other printed versions. There are loads of variations possible and you may be locking yourself into how this one is written. Besides ornamentation, you'll hear different combinations of notes through a phrase that lend themselves to other embellishments.
Tony
Tony
http://tinwhistletunes.com/clipssnip/newspage.htm Officially, the government uses the term “flap,” describing it as “a condition, a situation or a state of being, of a group of persons, characterized by an advanced degree of confusion that has not quite reached panic proportions.”
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I do roll the G in the A part, but it's a different sort of roll than what I play in any other tune...more like a dotted eighth note and two sixteenth notes. Normally I play my rolls very even. It seems to work for me, but I'm not an expert on polkas.
I usually cut the two E's but I don't think I do with the A's. I do play some triplets as well.
I'll record a version of my playing later after the kids are asleep and post it. I'd be interested in some feedback on it anyway.
-Brett
tune: http://www.bloomington.in.us/~brett/bally_desmond_2.mp3
I had to go outside so you may hear crickets and cars driving by...
I usually cut the two E's but I don't think I do with the A's. I do play some triplets as well.
I'll record a version of my playing later after the kids are asleep and post it. I'd be interested in some feedback on it anyway.
-Brett
tune: http://www.bloomington.in.us/~brett/bally_desmond_2.mp3
I had to go outside so you may hear crickets and cars driving by...
- TonyHiggins
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Took a shot at the tune just for example (good or bad, you decide). When someone says, "I roll the second a or cut the third b," I think, "don't tell me, show me." My brain's too lazy to work out the details from reading about them. (Edit: Hey, Brett, you posted while I was doing my one.)
<a href="http://www.tinwhistletunes.com/clipssni ... llydesmond Polka #2
<a href="http://www.tinwhistletunes.com/clipssni ... llydesmond Polka #2
http://tinwhistletunes.com/clipssnip/newspage.htm Officially, the government uses the term “flap,” describing it as “a condition, a situation or a state of being, of a group of persons, characterized by an advanced degree of confusion that has not quite reached panic proportions.”
Re: Ornamental Troubles
sweetie, if its not in the right place it is not an ornament.scheky wrote:Ok, this isn't about having trouble PLAYING ornaments, but rather getting them in the right place so the music feels RIGHT.
.......
whoever heard of a necklace ornamenting an ear?
qui jure suo utitur neminem laedit
- colomon
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- Tell us something.: Whistle player, aspiring C#/D accordion and flute player, and aspiring tunesmith. Particularly interested in the music of South Sligo and Newfoundland. Inspired by the music of Peter Horan, Fred Finn, Rufus Guinchard, Emile Benoit, and Liz Carroll.
I've got some compositions up at http://www.harmonyware.com/tunes/SolsTunes.html - Location: Midland, Michigan
- Contact:
Yeah, I do something like that too -- basically capturing the G>F G thing that's there in the ABCs, but doing it as G>G G using a roll.Bretton wrote:I do roll the G in the A part, but it's a different sort of roll than what I play in any other tune...more like a dotted eighth note and two sixteenth notes. Normally I play my rolls very even. It seems to work for me, but I'm not an expert on polkas.
I've no idea if that's even vaguely traditional, but it feels right.
That does remind me I need to sit down and listen carefully to the Denis Murphy / Julia Clifford recording of the Ballydesmonds....
Sol's Tunes (new tune 2/2020)
- Blaydo
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Heres another version of it you might get something from:
http://www.esatclear.ie/~lorenzo/Variou ... olka_1.MP3
It's from an Irish tune book cd and is listed there as 1 not 2.
http://www.esatclear.ie/~lorenzo/Variou ... olka_1.MP3
It's from an Irish tune book cd and is listed there as 1 not 2.
- riverman
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If we're talking about the Ballydesomod Polka, I love it. I usually slide up into that G, and cut the second of the double As. I'm not advanced enough to change my ornamentation for each measure--that's future for me. But I vary the timing.
Grey Larsen's "Tin Whistle Toolbox" tutorial has songs with ornamentation symbols added. and his "The Toolbox Tune Collection" has 18 songs with ornamentation added, and CDs. These help me a lot.
Grey Larsen's "Tin Whistle Toolbox" tutorial has songs with ornamentation symbols added. and his "The Toolbox Tune Collection" has 18 songs with ornamentation added, and CDs. These help me a lot.
"Whoever comes to me I will never drive away." --Jesus Christ.