Description:
I am offering for sale an early 30s, probably 1933 Gibson F5 mandolin. This mandolin is in excellent condition, not now or ever having a need for repairs. All of the hardware is original and in good condition. This beauty can be seen in the Mandolin Archives at http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?2748
Notice the beautiful figure of the maple. The case is as clean as any vintage case I have ever seen. Of interest is the late 20s style “The Gibson” and full Fern inlay. The mandolin is very lively and responsive, has plenty of volume and cuts quite well in a band setting. It has the vintage tone that has developed well over the last 70 plus years. I am offering this great example for $62,500. No trades, please. Thanks for looking "
Damn, that’s a lot of dough. I simply can’t imagine it sounding THAT good!
Gibson F5s signed by Lloyd Loar from about 10 years earlier usually fetch twice as much, maybe more. That’s the vintage market; i’m sure it sounds great, but i can’t imagine paying that much for a mandolin either. A new “distressed” Gibson F5 master model goes for $20k, so it’s not too much of a stretch to suppose that an instrument 70 years older will cost 3x as much.
For me, if i had $62k to spend on a mandolin, i’d probably go for a Collings MF5V and put the rest in the bank.
Collectors, maybe a very few pro players. You saw that Martin guitar that sold on eBay for $250,000 didn’t you? That was a couple weeks ago…posted on the pipe forum I guess.
That’s the only guess that makes much sense to me. Rock stars and souvenir hunters drive the price of vintage guitars up. But rock stars don’t play mandolins.
I assume that there is now a lot of money in Nashville. Perhaps the top session players and road players have that sort of money.
We were visiting with builder Homer Ledford and he brought out a mandolin that he had inlaid all over with MOP. It was absolutely gorgeous. He said someone had offered him $50,000 for it, and his comment was “Frankly, it just isn’t that good of an instrument”!!!
The person who is selling the instrument is a well-known bluegrass musician in the band Dry Branch Fire Squad; i’m going to make a guess and say he acquired the mandolin before the price of Loars and Ferns went through the roof.
Further evidence that the F5 is king: http://www.vintagemandolin.com/15gibsonf4_22225.html
This 1915 F4 in excellent condition is less than 1/10th the asking price of the 1933 F5 Fern. Prices on vintage oval-hole Fs have risen quite a bit in the last few years but still nowhere close to what 1920’s-30’s F5 models fetch. There’s an F2 in the MC classifieds now that is $3200, less than what many modern builders would charge for a copy of the same instrument.
If you like vintage ovals, just be glad Bill didn’t play one.
…but you gotta be careful with F-2s and F-4s. A lot of them just don’t sound that good. IMHO. I think an oval hole A is more consistently better sounding.
I recently played a crummy F-4 from about 1915 and I held it up right next to my 1917 A-1 and I noticed that the body depth was different. The F-4 was more shallow. I had always thought they had the same body depth. Since the scroll is closed off (unlike the F-5) then I have to figure that the F-4 has less air volume in its body. That might be why they sound a bit different.
Regarding prices - I think the sleeper is the A-2Z from the Loar period. If you can find one, grab it. I predict the prices on the Loar period snakehead A’s will go up dramatically. (..yes, I am glad that Bill didn’t play one).
I agree with that completely. My uncle has an old F2 model, around 1914 or so, and it doesn’t sound very good. One of my cousins has a Loar snakehead model that sounds great, but the neck is so narrow it’s difficult to get around on the fretboard…even with medium sized fingers.
I discovered something about my A model I like. It sounds better than my A2 (how much? more than slightly) and the A2 is a #68,245 or 1921. The A model is a #61,488 - I forget the year. I bought the A model just for the case…I was going to resell the mando but fell in love with the thing. The A-1 pumpkin top I have doesn’t sound very good. It’s a #20,245 which is what…early teens?
Anyway, don’t underestimate a plain old early 1920’s A model, that has no script on the head nor fancy trim. I thought it might be the solid bridge vs. the adjustable bridge (A2), but I switched them around and the A model still sounded better than the A2.
I must confess that i’ve never played a vintage F2 or F4, let along a Loar F5. However, i’ve heard that not all Loar F5s are great either – Norman Blake has pointed out that a lot of them have intonation problems, for example. But if there is a Loar signature on the F5 label, it doesn’t much matter, the asking price will reach into six figures.
Personally speaking, i’ll probably never have the scratch to start collecting vintage instruments, though it’s kind of fun to watch the prices.
Hey, I don’t know. If you have the time to look…the Mandolin Archives is a great place to search. The guy who runs it is a really nice person. You could probably ask him.
Norman prefers the Loar A4 models, if I remember correctly, but says the best sounding Gibson mandolin he’s ever played is one from around 1935. I forget the style…F or A.
I just googled ‘gibson mandolas’ and got a very informative site so check that out if you’d like. …but yes they did, the H line for mandolas and K for mandocello…looks like the last year they made either though was 1936.
All very interesting indeed Lorenzo, thanks for sharing all of that
I’d love to get a gibby Oval A one of these days, but the more I read, the more I come to understand how widely they can vary, soundwise. So I get the feeling that buying one of these particular instruments on ebay or long distance (without an approval period) is not a good idea, unless the price is outrageously good, eh?
“That’s the only guess that makes much sense to me. Rock stars and souvenir hunters drive the price of vintage guitars up. But rock stars don’t play mandolins”
Well, there have been a few, but who remembers Page or Anne Wilson (Heart) playing mandolin these days? OTH, play the mando line from “Losing my Religion”, and most folks in the western world between the ages of 20 and 55 would likely recognice it immediately. Still, doesn’t account for the mando prices
“I assume that there is now a lot of money in Nashville.”
Yeah, seriously outrageous amounts. It absolutely amazing what has happened with “country music”, in terms of the surge in popularity and money the industry generates. And who knows, Chris Thiele may become the first “Mando Country/Bluegrass Music Rock Star”, the way things are going…
“Perhaps the top session players and road players have that sort of money.”
Absolutely, the top Nashville session players and road performers make fantastic money, and I have no doubt that the boom in country music has quite a bit to do with the surge in mando prices.
a lot of them have structural problems – sunken tops, loose braces, etc, so if you get a good price you may need to factor in what a good luthier would charge to restore it as well.
I have read that the reason why some Gibson mandolas and mandocellos have sunken tops, prior to 1920, is because of the bracing and thickness of the top–the way they were graduated from the middle to the outer edge. I think Loar may have had something to do with fixing that problem. If you do buy a Gibson A without playing it first, I’d make sure the serial # is above the 59000 range. The best ones seem to be between 69458-84715 (1922-1924) known as the Loar period, but Loar may well have had his hand in the redesign earlier during the experimental stages. Not many people can afford the ones made during Loar’s time at the factory, so the 1920-21 era seems a good second bet…I know I like them a lot.
But, I also like the Mid-Missouri. They have a lively sound…a whole different feel (in sound) than the vintage Gibsons.
