THe rhetoric above makes about as much sense as calling conservatives “anti-environment.”
Hi avanutria
Be proud you are American and use that pride to help make the changes you wish to see.
David
Me too! I’m so frustrated with the limited choices realistically available to us. I’m for more people registering as independent and voting independently.
I’m for a country where everyone is taken care of because everyone takes care of their neighbor, rather than because the government passes laws.
I’m for personal responsibility. If our forefathers had spent their time complaining about the bad things that happened to them instead of doing the work and making the necessary sacrifices to change things, the USA wouldn’t exist.
And I’m for democracy: “The worst form of government in the world…except for every other form”
Susan
the true anti-americans are the ones who bow to the corporations, thus putting the dollar over the well being of our enviroment and all basic moral responsabilities.
tansy
up the ra!
im up for sending volunteers over to columbia and teaching farc revolutionarys the fine art of incendiary bomb-making!
im also up for looking in the back of my wardrobe for the state of narnia!! “the lying old bitch in the wardrobe”!
Just read an irish reporters view on the superdome (or whatever its called)
in “Ireland on sunday”! she managed to breach the security and enter the dome!
i dont trust americans…
what can i say??
but i still managed to touch the flowers!
You can say disapproving things about certain American people or about the American government without having to be scared that you’re going to be regarded as anti-American. I like American people generally. You don’t get too many in the wilds of the Westcountry 'tis true, but the ones I’ve met (and no stereotype intended here) are warm, friendly and straightforward. I’ve bantered with hundreds on this and the harmonica forums and I love it. Calling someone anti-American because they happen to criticise some aspect of your nation, OK, maybe more than once, betrays a chip on your shoulder. If you were to criticise Tony Blair or Margaret Thatcher here, or the fact that we play proper games like cricket instead of rounders - I mean baseball (quick: 
) - it wouldn’t occur to me to think you were anti-British. I want to come to the USA and see your wonderful cities and natural wonders and experience your culture, many aspects of which are second to none, and I will when I get the chance. But I’m not going to be put off from saying, for example, that you have a lousy president who was lousy even when you voted him in for a second time, or that we’ve seen this week that, despite your world image as a rich nation, you have vast numbers of people who have been living in grinding poverty in the south. Am I anti-American? Were you to comment on this board about the serious race problem we have in our inner-city areas, or criticise Blair for being Bush’s poodle, I would never call you anti-British. There are many things here that I like and many I don’t like and I’ll discuss any of them with you if we’re both interested enough to do so (it was English cheese for me this week - a couple of weeks ago it was the guy shot by mistake on the tube).
If someone says something about America or Americans that you disagree with, tell 'em you disagree and tell 'em why. If they come back at you all unreasonable, tell 'em you’re not playing any more. But don’t fall into the trap of saying to someone that if you’re not with us you’re against us. Therein lies a very nasty slippery slope that history should have taught us to avoid.
Steve
Christian Socialism wouldn’t exclude anybody. Christ doesn’t exclude anybody. People often exclude themselves, though.
Church and State have never really been completely separate in the sense that there is absolutely no connection whatsoever and I don’t think they’re likely to be separate any time soon. It’s really a matter of degree (as to how much Church will be involved) and which church(es) it will be.
I am not planning on debating any of these points publically, just sharing a personal perspective.
That’s fine, Beth. I’m not asking for debate here. I’m only asking for the complementary perspective to what we usually read here. For and against. Yin and Yang. We seldom hear the other side.
Thanks for your comprehensive post.
I think that if intergalactic aliens were to gain their only impression of the US by reading this board and they were so inclined and had the power to do so, they would destroy the US and, from reading some posts here, I believe that some C&F members would applaud the destruction.
I kinda think that we hear “the other side[s]” quite often. There are members of this forum from just about every kind of people (except the sane kind, of course ).
The one issue where I’d like to see more diverse ways of looking at things is race. From what I’ve seen (with a couple exceptions) C&F’s active members are almost entirely caucasian, so when speaking of only getting “one side” of an issue here, that’s what first leaps to my mind.
I love my country, but I would definitely like to see some changes, and since you asked, here they are.
-
I’d like to see a strong and unyielding separation of church and state.
-
I’d like to see the president elected by popular vote.
-
I’d like to see the end of political parties and the spoils system.
-
I’d like to see a minimum standard of living created for all citizens, whether or not they are employed or employable. The ability to obtain food, shelter, and health care should not be linked to whether or not you can convince someone to hire you. It is shameful that in a country with so many resources we still have people dying from the heat in the summer because they can’t afford an air conditioner, dying from the cold in the winter because they can’t afford heat, and dying from hunger all year round.
-
Money given to aid other countries or international organizations should be withheld indefinitely until number 4, above, is complete. We have no business feeding other nations while our own people starve.
-
I’d like to see big business sharply regulated, and to accomplish this I’d like to see a strong and unyielding wall of separation between commerce and state. It’s an international joke (with too much truth) that America has the best government money can buy.
-
I’d like it to be a requirement of all persons seeking to hold public office that they pass a test confiming that they have an I.Q. of 120 or greater.
There ya go, probably worth exactly what you paid to read them.
–James
If i wasnt paying over the odds and actually had a p.c. in my house instead of going to an internet cafe every second day i would love to give my opinion! but im rushed for time and etc…
Amen
I’d like to have our country be true to it’s own principals. When we’re supposed to stand for freedom and democracy, yet our policies are overthrowing democracies and installing dictatorships in their place around the globe – you have to wonder. If we say we’re interested in the freedom and well being of people around the world, but we’re exporting US trained terrorist death squads to support tyrannies – you have to wonder. When we say freedom and justice for all, and all are not receiving the basics of that – you have to wonder. You have to wonder who’s interests these actions are benefiting… here’s a hint; it’s not you and I.
Here at home we’re told we live in a democracy, yet the past two elections resemble something that would take place in a country where democracy was very unstable. We have a mainstream media that most people rely on for the truth – yet it lies to them – and they don’t even realize it. We’re supposed to have “freedom of the Press,” and even though it’s true that you can print anything – getting it out to the masses is locked up under corporate/government control. This is such a crucial wing of a democracy and it has lost its function in this country. The stories Americans are told come through the prism of corporate America, and corporate America has not demonstrated itself as a fair, honest and just entity. I would like to see our country returned to its citizens.
Now I could fill pages with examples about what I’ve touched on and other issues as well, but this isn’t the time or place. The basic underlying desire I have for this country is for honesty and justice to be returned to the government and it’s people. As long as these things are being held captive and people are suffering as a result, we do not have the country we were led to believe we live in. American patriotism isn’t about supporting your government right or wrong – it’s about standing up for freedom and justice even if your leaders have lost sight of it. And as an American patriot I will stand up against it regardless of what I’m called for doing so.
I would, too. And I suspect every American would. The problem arises when asked to define our country’s pinciples.
The Constitution, Bill of Rights, and other such important documents are open to interpretation and people always disagree about what they say and mean.
I don’t think overthrowing democracies, training and installing dictators and death squads, supporting tyrannies, etc. are American principals. If they are, and the constitution and bill of rights can be interpreted that way – I’m living in the wrong country.
Why not?
Half the nation knows that. 
I just read this thread, originating, as it does, with the subversive, destructive, and anti-American notion that dissent and critique is anti-American, and I admit I was fantasizing about deleting it. In the absence of any really legitimate reason to do it, I was thinking maybe I could claim that I sneezed and accidently hit “DELETE.”
End of confession.
I don’t know why in the world I’m engaging you. (Surely it was somebody’s responsibility to stop me).
But this is an entirely obnoxious remark. You couldn’t defend it if your life depended on it, so you’ll simply hide behind it being “your opinion.” As a loyal American on the left side of political center, I resent it personally. I resent it for what it claims about all kinds of good Americans who might believe, for example, that the current administration isn’t good for America. I resent it for what it claims about many of my own friends and members of my own family. You’re alternating between this kind of hateful and destructive language and then a kind of oh, I’m just seeking the other perspective and, just give me a “short post” on “What are you for?” It’s just ridiculous.
Because … well… because!.. I just can’t bring myself to post the reason, as it gets petty and catty and starts the whole shebang all over again… I’ll let someone else take responsibility for that. 