I’ve heard people refer to tunes as starting in say ‘g’ then moving to ‘a’ minor etc. as though the key has changed and different parts of the tune are in different keys
I’ve always thought that this was incorrect, that one part might be based on a chord that belongs to another key, but that the key has not changed
there’s an infinite number of examples but one might be ‘the Dublin reel’ that’s in ‘d’ but has a middle part ‘in’ ‘a’, or say ‘the curragh races’ that is in ‘a’ minor but has a second part that seems to suggest a ‘c’ chord
I guess we’re going to have to define “correct” here, then. Honestly, to me it depends on who you’re talking to. If you’re guiding an accompanist so as to back you up there’s nothing wrong with saying a tune changes keys, because that is functionally what it does. However, when talking to a classically trained musician, they may see it differently in terms of the bigger picture - and as I recall, tend to do. Nothing wrong with that either, but a rigorous academic rectitude may be confusing to the likes of me in certain cases.
I think good communication should come first whether we come from college or the street.
If you play a tune part in isolation and it has a strongly identifiable tonal center, then it’s perfectly reasonable to say that that tune part is in that key or mode. If that key/mode differs from that of other parts, then it’s perfectly reasonable to say that the tune as a whole is multikeyed or multimodal.
This follows naturally from recognizing the structural reality of tune parts. And note that whether there’s a change of written key signature in transcribed form is irrelevant.
There’s nothing magical or sacred about the starting key of a tune. There are AB tunes that are sometimes played in either order, AB or BA. If the tonal center of each part is different, then which is the key of the tune and which is the modulation? You might be able to answer that if you analyze the implied cadences or “turnarounds” between the parts. But it’s still a multikeyed tune.
I would add for clarity’s sake ( and because im a total nerd about this sort of thing) that a strong tonality is established and reinforced by repeated masculine cadences on that tonal center.
And, to refine MTGuru’s terminology just a teeny bit more, polymodality is strictly a seperate kettle of fish than polytonality. A melody can be simultaneously both, and/or neither.
Any counterarguments shall be dealt with by my hobbit.
In a lot of cases the key being changed to is the relative minor or major of the preceding part, e.g. G major to E minor (Out on the Ocean), A minor to C Major (The Gravel Walks), B minor to D major (The Otters Holt).
Incidentally, D Mixolydian or D Modal (Queen of the Rushes) can be described as a D scale with a flattened 7th (d e f# g a b c d) and this makes it the same as the G scale (g a b c d e f# g). The B part of this tune may seem to change key as the first chord is C but is actually all in the same key (D Mix or D Modal).
yeah, i mean…a lot of the time dipping into plagal territory (G maj > D dorian), or even relative minor (G maj > E aeolian) dosent hold up under strict analysis as a true modulation to a ‘foreign’ tonality. It s kinda nice to impart that kind of complexity to (lack of better term) 'traditional 'musics, but unless its one of those PBS style huge production arrangements that go a step up for the final verse for the sake of verismo, we;re 9x out of 10 not talking ‘modulation’ proper here. Including stuff like pivot chords, harmonic direction, careful root progressions, all sort of make the modulation…shall we say…worthwhile(??). & All of this despite what wiki says.
Personally, Ive always thought sudden abrupt shifts into the paralell minor (Gmaj > Gmin) to be far more interesting and exciting, but thats (afaik) sort of rare in ITM.
If anyone has an ex, I’d LOVE to see an ITM tune with that kind of shift. But not if its faux ITM, or something by Howard Shore.
Personally I think its not good to over analyse tradition music ,it somehow flies in the face of the spirit of the music. Listen to it and play it, dont concern yourself with what mode or key its in ,play and enjoy.
My wife, the music major in the family, calls everything with two sharps “D”.
As a violinist, the key signature is important, but the actual key is really irrelevant. It’s kind of confusing when, as a guitarist, I’m trying to figure out chords…
exactly, to both. Keys, tonality, harmony, even modes are kind of superfluous, & accepted methods of analysis are often irrelevant. (except for Schenker, which can reduce almost anything)
Trad music is best studied in terms of melodic cells, phrase structure, and motivic topography.
yaah.
I actually agree, Rory, to a point. But the thing to realize is that for people with strong music theory training, it’s not either/or. You just hear and understand the details at the same time that you’re simply enjoying the music. If anything, hearing the music on two different levels at once only adds to the enjoyment. It’s not some kind of cold, soulless process as “analysis” might suggest.
It’s like an ecologist looking at a beautiful landscape. He/she will see and understand all sorts of details - botanical, zoological, geological - that escape our untrained attention. But that doesn’t mean they don’t also enjoy the beauty of the scene every bit as much as we do.
I’d even suggest that some of the very best, most expressive, most moving, most musical performers indeed have a very good “analytical” understanding of their music, whether or not they can articulate that understanding in the vocabulary of formal music theory.
yes, well said. However. As I would put it, once you’ve dissected a simple folk melody on the autopsy table under a lab light, its impossible to erase those aural images.
the best text (that ive found,) on the subj of bridging cold theoretical analysis into heartfelt, thrilling, authentic performance practice, is Felix Salzer’s ‘Structural Hearing’.
Once upon a time, I was playing some tunes with Josephine Marsh and I went into a reel I got from a tape of Micho Russell’s playing. Josephine picked it up straight away, even though I was having trouble with C/C#. I said I couldn’t hear from his playing which note it was meant to be. “Ah, they were all the same to Micho,” she said.
a good jig in 2 keys is the 4 part "the jig of slurs"also play "out on the ocean"in a major for a laugh,you get that lovely c sharp stacatto note and the final a couplet is tipped missing out the g sharp,learned from o,flynn.
to see an ITM tune with that kind of shift. But not if its faux ITM, or something by Howard Shore. 
