I’m wondering, is there any documentary evidence as to when precisely the whistle was adopted into the world of “Traditional” Irish Music?
Bone whistles have come out of the excavations of medieval sites on Dublin’s Wood Quay. I don’t suppose that relates much to traditional music as we know it but there would certainly be 19th century sources of whistle related materials.
Thanks Mr Gumby, yes, I’m aware of the Viking ‘whistles’ found in Dublin.
This one, for example, was found in Winetavern St:
I should have been clearer.
By “Whistle”, I’m referrring specifically to the modern, A=440hz, diatonic, even-temperament, “tin whistle”
- be it made of tin or otherwise : )
By “Whistle”, I’m referrring specifically to the modern, A=440hz, diatonic, even-temperament, “tin whistle”
- be it made of tin or otherwise : )
A=440 became international standard in 1955 so you’re ruling out quite a bit there and ‘even’ / equal temperament scaled whistles are probably even more recent.
But, as I said, there would be 19th century sources for metal whistles.
This card, from around 1900-1905 shows the whistle as a well established part of the diddly stereotype:
Whistles (in brass and nickel silver) from the 1880s decorated with Irish imagery (harps etc) are in existence. Not a definite link to traditional music but certainly one to Ireland.
Robert Clarke was flogging whistles to Irish labourers during the 1850s, enticing them with the Derry air and Moore’s melodies, again, not strictly traditional stuff but one can assume airs and dance music would have been played on them.
For some reason I’d got it into my head that, in Britain, we’d adopted A440 as a standard in the late 19thC.
OK, so I was 1hz out - it was actually A439 (New Philharmonic Pitch, 1989) 
Robert Clarke was flogging whistles to Irish labourers during the 1850s, enticing them with the Derry air and Moore’s melodies, again, not strictly traditional stuff but one can assume airs and dance music would have been played on them.
So, I wonder how long it took for tin whistle to become accepted as a ‘regular’ instrument for the playing of traditional music ?
I’d guess not long at all; they were comparatively very inexpensive, yet you can do a lot with them.
Note how this is at odds with the received wisdom that Clarke’s start of mass production in 1843 was the introduction of the ‘tin’ whistle.
The Companion also reproduces an image from c. 1840 of a whistleplayer playing for a pair of dancers.
And as Nano above said, they were cheap and by all accounts sold in local hardware shops, much like cheap German concertinas what also became popular very rapidly (note the story of young Micho Russell delighted by the gift of a whistle bought by his father in a hardware shop in Ennistymon).
From what I understand…
Tinplate was around early in the 1600s.
The “Tin” whistle was around in the 1700s.
Clark may have been one of the first to mass produce the things, but they were around back in the colonial years of the US. Perhaps The Whistle by Ben Franklin was written about one.
So when does Irish Traditional Music begin?
Clark may have been one of the first to mass produce the things, but they were around back in the colonial years of the US
The problem I have with Norman Dannatt’s History.. is that he more or less strongly suggests Clarke invented the tin whistle and certainly doesn’t contradict authors he quotes saying as much.
Bill Ochs however, in the aforementioned entry in the Companion. , clearly states references are found to the tin whistle well before 1843.
Metal whistles seem to have had a widespread popularity all over Middle and Western Europe (and probably beyond, I have an example that came from Hungary) and probably the US (which is a bit outside my experience, they do seem to appear in the catalogues there) during the second half of the 19th century.
Well, it was 1896, not 1989. And it wasn’t a standard, since hardly anybody used it, including the Royal Philharmonic Society after whom it was named - they apparently used diapason normal, at A=435.
A=440 is hardly universal even now, although it seems to pass in most places. But the difference is that A=440 is at least proposed as an agreed universal pitch standard, which the New Philharmonic Pitch was not, as far as I know.
A=440 is hardly universal even now, although it seems to pass in most places. But the difference is that A=440 is at least proposed as an agreed universal pitch standard,
Well, 1955 saw the introduction of an ISO norm, a bit stronger than a ‘proposal’
I let the issue lie, all I can say that most old whistles are nearly exactly a semitone flat of their indicated pitch.
I’d like to hear the answer to this one. When did ITM begin?
Yeah. I was agreeing with you. Just trying to point out that it isn’t universal even now, but at least it’s trying to be.
I give up. My English expression has deserted me. Suffice to say that we agree, Mr G. Honest.
What is “The Companian” ?
THank you Mr. Gumby
Does he give specific details re. these reference sources? it would be interesting to attempt to follow up on them.
Hah!
Yes, I even went and double-checked the date before posting. Don’t know why I wrote 1989 instead of 1896 - probably due to too many junk thoughts going round in my head at the same time. 
[Note to self: Remember to read what you’ve written before hitting the “Submit” button.]
Yeah. Don’t give any ammo to the smart@rses.
… oh … that would be me, wouldn’t it?
yer one o’em 
I love the way the words “Traditional” Irish Music gets tossed around, er, ah, mentioned in discussions. As a newbie and trying to figure it all out, whistling, when someone says “ITM” are they meaning exclusively to Irish? What about the Scottish? British? and American interpretations of the Irish Trad. Or is that lumped into “Celtic”? The Companion reading has been a blessing as well as contributing to the confusion. And, if its traditional, how come the names of tunes can vary so many times, as it seems that if someone doesn’t know the correct name of the tune they just slap a new title to an old tune? Or is that the tradition… confusion?