Who are the top makers?
I read the term “top maker” here quite often, and wonder who or why or what they are.
Obviously not making tops.
I mean, how do you become a top maker, who belongs to this elite club, if it is a club,
what is so specially distinguishing between a top maker and an ordinary flute maker?
Is it definable?
Is it just hearsay, the makers most people recommend here?
Do you become a top maker by getting enough votes of confidence?
Or are the top makers making the flutes for the top players?
In which case is someone regarded as a top player, I may ask?
Are top makers regarding themselves as top makers?
Are lesser than top makers aspiring to become top makers, or be regarded as top makers?
How does a new flute maker become a top maker?
Oh, and is it an American term?
Are there local variations, different people regarded as top makers in Ireland or England than in US America?
Or are the top makers a flute myths?
Are we perhaps undervaluing some makers?
What are top makers for you?
I think you’re picking apart a very reasonable and useful phrase. Naturally, the term ‘top makers’ was shorthand for a loose list of makers that most folks on these forums consider to be operating at or near the top of their craft.
The list varies based on the experience and preferences of each of us, but might include such names as:
As many others have pointed out, it is illuminating to go to the Wooden Flute Obsession which lists over 100 recorded Irish flute players, and the flutes they recorded with. All things considered, excluding antique flutes, there is a remarkable consensus around a very limited number of makers (in alphabetical order) (Grinter, Hamilton, Murray, Wilkes, Olwell) with occasional nods to other makers. This doesn’t mean that makers not on the list aren’t “top”. Differences in ability to promote, length of time making flutes, relative ease of web access, or access period, price, etc. might all play roles in flute “popularity”.
Notwithstanding these caveats, these data suggest that a small number of makers are trusted by many professionals. Put another way, it these flutes are good enough for them, chances are they are good enough for you. The chances are also good that there are many fine makers out there who are less recognized, and that you can obtain a fine instrument from them. But if you can’t yourself judge the quality of a flute, there is something to be said for trusting the judgement of those who can.
I like the sound of my Copley best, a good flute, it doesn’t matter to me if someone famous plays it too. There’s many good makers, but i believe sound is what matters most. i don’t feel the need to try out all kinds of different flutes to find out how they play, i’m used to my Copley. Or maybe i’m just lucky and found the perfect flute for me right away
“Popular by recording artists” is quite a good definition for top makers, certainly better than popular by “forum members”. To narrow it down to “the definite five top makers” is even better. That leaves plenty of room for all the others to be near the top.
So according to popularity by Irish flute recording artists we got
(in alphabetical order, according to Hugh):
The top five flute makers:
Grinter
Hamilton
Murray
Wilkes
Olwell
Then there are many others who may be very good indeed, but not top as defined above. I am quite happy with this, as it defines top by popularity, and not by quality, which is a lot harder to measure. And it is popularity not in a general way, but of a more professional kind.
Now we just need to agree that the top five flute makers are indeed the individuals listed, and that there are indeed just five in this league, according to use of their flutes by Irish flute recording artists. That these five are indeed statistically significantly more often chosen by the top flute musicians. I just trust that Hugh did his counting right in this. Thank you!
I would consider Maurice Reviol to be a “top maker” since I have a flute made by him and I am extraordinarily pleased with it. It’s mostly a matter of one’s own opinion, I guess.
Hans made me nervous, so I went and counted the flutes mentioned. I didn’t count historical flutes except from famous makers. I did get the top 5 right. I was surprised by the number playing on originals.
Makers in numerical order (number of players in brackets)
Murray (16)
Olwell (15)
Rudall and Rose or Rudall and Carte (15)
Grinter (6)
Wilkes (6)
Hamilton (4)
Wylde (by himself or for R+R) (3)
Cotter (2)
Doyle (2)
Lehart (2)
Williams (2)
Again I’d emphasize that many of these tracks are old, so the artists may be playing different flutes now. This is a snapshot. With all its flaws, I still find this an interesting list…
There are some makers who are considered,
by people who know these instruments, to
be masters. I’ve heard Pat O described by a
flute teacher in Ireland as the ‘Stradivarius’
of flute making. The five on the list seem
to be right.
There are others making good or perfectly adequate
flutes who aren’t yet masters. I suppose this
is how it is with plenty of other instruments too,
e.g. violins.
I think that’s what ‘top makers’ is really about.
Who are the masters? (Of course ‘top makers’
might mean something more inclusive (as in
Who makes good flutes?), but then the distinction
tween master and competent journeyman
still exists, and it’s good to mark it somehow.)
The good question arises ‘How does one know
who the masters are?’ The answer, I think, is
that one goes to the ‘old guys’, the most experienced
musicians, the pros, the teachers and you ask them.
There is, of course, no guarantee that somebody
masterful but new is off the list, but that’s how
things go in such affairs.
Of course the ‘old guys’ might disagree considerably
as to who the masters are,
but interestingly that’s not much the case
with Irish flutes.
Thanks for all your counting, Hugh!
There are the remarkable top three with over half of all flutes (!):
Murray, Olwell and Rudalls
followed by Grinter, Wilkes, Hamilton and Wylde,
and a field of further (good) makers.
Jim, I can’t make much sense of your talk about “masters” and “the old guys”.
The “experienced” flute players I have met are usually not that old. They have an intimate relationship with their flute of choice, and a great respect for the maker of the instrument. But not necessarily a great insight why this maker should be regarded as master of his craft. They may indeed abuse their flute in terrible ways. Niall Keegan told on a workshop that a flute would last him perhaps two or three years before it cracked, literally, from the pressure he put on it (he played a Williams flute), pressing it against his chin. I don’t see that Irish flute players treat their flutes like Stradivaris. More like BMWs.
And as for masters of the flutemaking trade: I think there are many masters. Anyone who can build flutes to consistent quality standards, who has done this for years, and perhaps can also forge keys etc I would consider as a master flute maker. Unfortunately flute making is no trade at all these days, and I don’t think there are journeymen refining their skills by working for masters.
Some masters are more skilled or gifted than others, or have true genius.
Which brings back the question: who are the top makers?
Looking at what the top players prefer we perhaps get some idea.
But I would not put too much into it, as there are far too few flutes being made to really offer the choice of comparing flutes widely. They are far too thin on the ground. That’s why there is so much talk about flutes on this forum.
It’s nice to know who the top makers are, but if you are new to fluting, you may find it better to not purchase a top-maker flute but instead get something to get started with so you can begin learning and later get the flute you need once you know what your needs are.
I feel that an Olwell flute would be wasted on someone like me who has never played an Irish flute ever.
My plan is to learn to play, then maybe join a session and perhaps meet other flute players and see what flutes they have, learn about how the flutes sound by hearing them being played and seeing them with my own eyes, and in general just learning what I would really need in a flute by learning about how my beginner flute measures up or doesn’t.
IF – it’s a big if – I even have it in me to become accomplished enough I need a top-maker flute, that is when I’ll concern myself with them. I may never reach that stage.
sbhikes, you are right on! I admire your wisdom in knowing that a “Top Maker” flute should wait until you are well-grounded in the instrument, and truly know that you have the passion for it and the music. I have a feeling that there are literally hundreds of wonderful flutes (and other folk instruments) languishing in the possession of people who never should have cluttered waiting lists, thereby, in my opinion, frustrating people like yourself, should you follow through with your plan. I have first-hand knowledge of this because I recently liberated such a flute from such a person. It cost me plenty, but the flute is being played daily. It sat in a corner for several years.
The ONLY counterexample to that thinking is, in my opinion, the fact that there are actually a lot of sub-par flutes out there.
If people didn’t hoard flutes like they do, it might be easier for a beginner to find a used keyless Olwell, Wilkes, Grinter, Byrne, or what have you, rather than try to learn on something that’s not so good.
Unfortunately for the beginner (because they tend to appreciate) but fortunately for flutedom in general, the “top makers” tend to be incredibly consistent, and their less-expensive keyless instruments are every bit as good as their super-good 6- or 8-key models.
I agree that there is wisdom in what sbhikes says, but it’s unfortunately more complicated than that.
Stuart
PS: I just have to comment that, for some reason, every time I see “sbhikes” I imagine that it’s some kind of Yiddish curse. “You want more latkes? Suh-BICK-ess!” Even though it’s probably S. B. Hikes-something. Weird how the mind works, no?
I’m afraid we’ve gone by each other. By ‘old guys’ I didn’t mean
elderly people, but what I said I meant. Nor did I mean people
who necessarily treat their flutes well. Perhaps if you read my
post again it will make more sense.
You seem to be using the
word ‘master’ with a different sense than I was, but we
also agree that some makers who satisfy your definition of
‘master’ are more skilled or gifted or have more genius
than other ‘masters.’ Those are the people I’m calling ‘masters.’
It’s silly to argue about words.
Certainly there are people apprenticing with masters (in your
sense or mine)
and learning the craft from the ground up. I’m surprised
by your claim that flutemaking is no trade these days.
Also I disagree that one can’t get to compare different flutes.
There are a variety of flutes made and many of us have
played quite a few of them. The top players often are
especially likely to have done so.
It makes sense to wait until you know if flute playing will
be a passion, but if you find it is, there is this to be
said for ordering a top rate flute. By the time you get it,
which is likely to be a year and a half or more from the
time you ordered it, you will probably be ready for it.
If you wait till you’re ready before you order, you
will wait another two years for the flute you
might already be playing.
As to flutes standing in corners unused, that’s entirely
up to you. If you order wisely, the flute you order
will be worth as much (or more) the day it arrives
as what you paid for it. If it isn’t for you, you will know
it within six months or so (in which time you will learn
a good deal about a top rate flute), and you can
sell it.
The trouble is the lag time–one has to estimate what one
will need/want a year and half in advance. What you think
you will want today may not be what you want when the
flute arrives. But if you wait till you know, you will have
to wait a long while and, in fact, what you want may
change again. So there’s something to be said for
breaking into the cycle somewhere. ONe way or
another one is likely to go in off the deep end.
Most of the best flutes are really wonderful and
it’s likely that any of us could happily hang out
with any one of them for a couple of years, if not the rest of our
lives. Sooner, I say.
Also the best flutes are often a good deal easier
to play than less good flutes.
I feel that an Olwell flute would be wasted on someone like me who has never played an Irish flute ever.
Very bad thinking. Unwise.
It is precisely the beginner who needs the great flute the most. It would not be wasted on you.
With a great flute your learning curve will be steeper. You will play more often. You won’t be frustrated. You will get better faster and be happier with the time spent on your beautiful instrument.
You don’t have to be Andre Agassi to appreciate a good racket, or A.J Foyt to appreciate a great car.
If you have the money then go for it. You’ll never feel bad about buying it. And if you don’t play it as much as you thought why then you can sell it for nearly what you paid for it or perhaps even make a buck.
As far as making a wait list longer for a really good player, that’s crappy elitism of the worst kind. Only a snob would say that.
On the other issue, Top Makers, Wylde was a flute maker in the employ of Rudall & Rose. If you count his flutes as Rudalls (which they most assuredly are) then the Rudall flute is the top-most top-maker on the WFO series.
My first flute was a $50 French baroque flute from a junk shop. I struggled with it for a year. Then I went to Ireland and in 1989 I bought a used Rudall Carte. I was astounded by the difference. It was then that I began playing.
I think it was Goethe who put the “master” question in these terms:
Wer ist Meister? Der was ersann.
Wer ist Geselle? Der was kann.
Wer ist Lehrling? Jedermann.
In translation, it goes (roughly):
Who’s a master? He who innovates.
Who’s a journeyman? He who knows a trade.
Who’s an apprentice? Everyone.
It loses its resonance in my lousy translation, but the sense I take from it (and the sense the phrase is used to convey amongst the handworking crowd in Germany) is that the term master should be reserved for a craftsman who has begun to be creative with his work, either through scientific innovation, artistry, or both. You can be very good at what you do and still be a journeyman. Any of us can be a learner.
Meister is a strong word in Germany, and I think master (or “top”) should likewise only refer to those at the absolute summit of their craft. In today’s world, that’s pretty much the makers on the short list already posted on this topic. I will say that my own opinion would have Olwell, Wilkes, and Murray as the true (and living) masters of the flute-maker’s craft.
I can understand the argument that a beginner would do well to have a top-makers’ flute at the outset, but at this point in my “career” I would have to buy one not knowing what I’m looking for. I don’t even know if I want keys or keyless yet. So far, I want keyless, but what if I get locked out of too many tunes at the session (the session I’m not yet qualified to play in and won’t be for years)?
Also, I have parrots and if one of them ruined my priceless flute I would be quite upset. I may end up being a polymer flutist, against all my hatred of plastic.
Also, I might meet other players someday and who knows? Maybe one of them will have an old top-maker flute in their closet they’d sell me super cheap.
(sbhikes: Santa Barbara Hikes. That’s my web site and my other hobby.)
