Successfully Tweaked Generation Bb!

Whistle
1

:slight_smile: Just thought I’d report on Dale’s “Inexpensive Whistle Tweaking” piece. It worked. I started out with a totally unplayabe whistle, and wound up with a totally playable one. :party: The offending extra plastic was attached to the sides of the air chamber, going right up to the blade. Once I had the extra bits, out the whistle had a full two octave range!

Now about the bit on filling up that extra bit of space, I thought I read in one of the board postings tha there is a new “material of Choice” for this; poster gum or something. Since the whistle now plays fine should I even bother with this part? Pro’s & Con’s on this matter gladly accepted. :thumbsup:

JeffC

2

Definitely fill the cavity under the windway. The stuff to use is “poster putty,” “sticky tack” or “blu-tack” (all different names for the same thing). It’s used for sticking posters on walls. Available most anywhere (WalMart next to the crayons, hardware stores, Home Depot, etc.).

Cut off a little poster putty and make a ball of it about as big as a good-sized pea. Drop it into the tube end (tube off) of the mouthpiece so it falls into the cavity under the windway. Tamp it down with something that has a flat end (I use the handle of my exacto knife). You want to exactly fill the cavity, so there’s a flat surface going down from the end of the windway to the bottom of the mouthpiece.

This tweak is reversable, in case you don’t like the result, but I’ve never had it do anything but improve the sound/playability of a whistle.

Best wishes,
Jerry

3

I totaly agree with Jerry on the cavity filling question. I have 3 Gen Bbs all tweeked just a little different with one not realy tweeked at all.(got lucky) I wish I could discribe just what it is that filling the cavity fixes. But I cant realy because it seems to do different things to different whistles. Some are a little mellower, some have a cleaner break between octivs, some cleaner fingering. But it is a must try tweek. (unless of course you get lucky) Heck its been a while since I played one of those Bbs, think I`ll grab one right now. :slight_smile:

Tom

4

Turbulence :slight_smile:

Also, resonance within the cavity, which may explain the differing effects you describe.

Of course this is just my foolish opinion :laughing:

5

I have a Gen. Eb wich was greatly improved by tweaking. It play’s better now than both Sweetunes, Little blacks and Susatos I own, and that is unusual for a Gen. Eb. I tweaked it by polishing the windway and blade with fine sandpaper and filling the cavity with candle wax. I had to work a while with rubbing off the wax from the bore and windway, but it was no problem. I’ve now got a perfect fitting wax bit in the cavity and this has made the whistle play astonishingly well… :smiley:

6

Oh, in my experience Gen Eb tweak up remarkably well. They can be the most gorgeous whistles. I have one that I absolutely cherish.

Again, I beg to differ. I have found that slightly underfilling the cavity is even better. I had the tip from someone on c&f here, I forget who, probably Tomas Hastay. Unlike he, I am of the unscientific school of tweaking and can’t explain what exactly happens to the turbulences etc. But I recommend putting a shallow dip in Blu-Tac fill.

7

i filled in my generations and liked the results. about a year ago though someone here said that filling in the cavity is like stuffing a rain coat in side a martin guitar. kind of stuck with me :smiley:
tansy

8

Thank you all for your suggestions! I finally got around to getting the poster tak and went to work on the Gen Bb. It now sounds much much better. (I’m probably going to get a gen C to see if that will tweek up as nicely) After much hair pulling and retweaking, by trying different amounts of tak I am pretty much settled into the “Slightly underfilled cavity” school of thought. The Gen Bb now has a big sort of flutey sound to it, not bad for a $5.00 whistle! I was also lucky that I didn’t tweak this whistle into unplayability, I put a good medium size chip in the blade, but it luckily seems to have not caused a problem.

After fixing up the Bb I couldn’t stop, I just had to try out tweeking the new whistles that I received in the mail. I am fairly happy with the results on the Clare Nickel D and the Walton’s Little Black, althoughe the Walton is still a touchy little thing, it is after all, now playable.

My advice to all aspiring fipple surgeons is, if you have a sick (inexpensive) whistle, don’t be shy, dive right in, get to work and make that $5.00 to $8.00 whistle play like a champ!

Happy Whistling!

JeffC

9

I was blessed enough to get a Gen Nickel Bb that needed no tweaking. I wish I could say the same about the F, C, and 4D’s that I also have.

10

Yeah!

Tweak c’est chic

11

Hi, Bloo.

My understanding of the slightly underfilling strategy is that it helps balance the pitches between the two registers.

I’m interested in your experiences. I’ve had good results filling them up even, but I’m always looking for ways to get even better results. Would you be willing to give more information?

Best wishes,
Jerry

P.S. Do you prefer the bluish timbre of the blu-tac or the more whitish timbre of the other sticky-tack?

12

Jerry, I certainly perfer blue blu-tak. I like the fimbriated sound it gives, not as grozy and sedmordnilapish as the white stuff.

I don’t know that there is much more information that I can give. I use a pencil for filing the subaeroductial cavity, poking with the tip to fill the lateral crevises and tampen down with the reverse gummata erradicans (also known as the eraser). But I don’t want to get all technical about it. I strive for a little dip under the center of the lower lip of the windway, shaped as a shallow bowl with no edges or distrubances.

It’s true that I am the pseudonymous author of Prolegomena to the Scientific Study of Fipplecorrective Invasive and Non-Invasive Procedures (3 vols, Cambridge University Press: 1989-95) and of A Practical Approach to Tin-Whistle Fipple Tweaking. With Illustrative Examples, Testimonials and First-Aid Instructions (Norton: 1999), but I really wouldn’t want to hold myself out as an expert, you know.

13

Thanks for the tip, Bloo.

Now I must embark upon a quest for the correct implement. I believe I’ll do a Google search on “orthotweakic surgery equipment” and see if I can locate a supplier for the apparatus.

Best wishes,
Jerry

14

Tanzy’s point about “stuffing a Martin guitar with a coat” is near correct, with respect to the cavity under the windway on a Gen Bb.

The precise problem is the shape of the paraboloid reflector. When the Gen Bb head is made, the plastic is injected right on the curved face of the acoustic reflector causing a “bump” that disrupts the reflected soundwave. Shaving this bump smooth,removing all burrs and a polish with acetone can save you from filling this cavity.

Problem 2 is the warping of the plastic head under the windway after injection, caused by fast cooling of the plastic. a thin coating of “Blu-Tack” or clear nail polish on the “walls” can smooth the irregular surface without filling it all up.

When you fill up this harmonic reflector(it works the same way as a flashlight refector,by the way), you lose all the “chiff”/high frequency tone color. If you wish to improve resonant tone, I suggest only a surface coating of hard nail polish(or similar) inside the cavity and use the Blu-Tack/Putty to slightly reduce the bore end hole. This will keep your “Chiff”, generated by the voicing, and firm up the tone of your Gen Bb due to its oversized bore diameter.

15

Captain! there’s a bump on the paraboloid harmonic reflector! We need to get the doctor down here to perform an emergency reflector bumpectomy!

All kidding aside I think Thomas-Hastay may be making some valid points about basic fipple physiology/accoustology. I did once have the thought that hey maybe this dead space that I’m filling up with tak is some integral part of the whistle. But then as I tamped and takked and filed and sanded I thought “No way, this is just a whistle, got to fill up this dead space and make er play.”

I can clearly see that my tinkering days are not over.


JeffC

16

what thomas -h says about the gen Bb having an over sized bore makes sense. Susatos use the same head and bore ID for three different whistles d,c,&b. i approach this with little science so i am just trial and error guessing :confused: :party:

17

Thomas,

I must say, I’m puzzled by your paraboliod harmonic reflector theory.

I’ve never seen a paraboloid harmonic reflector on Burkes, Susatos, Synwhistles, expensive (or cheap, for that matter) recorders, etc. that I’ve inspected, many of which play beautifully all the way up to the highest notes.

I seriously doubt if the old Generation-type whistles, with the lead fipple plugs, have a paraboloid harmonic reflector either, and I’ve read that the difference between one of those, in good condition, and a modern, plastic-head Generation is like day and night, the old ones are so much better.

What I do find is that the shape of the cavity under the windway of a Generation or Waltons whistlehead is an exact match to the outside shape. The cavity comes to a point at the beak end, and appears to have been designed to keep the thickness of the plastic as uniform as possible to prevent uneven cooling and resultant distortion after injection molding.

The place that distortion would be most likely to ruin the whistle, is the windway floor. In many Sweetones, even with the cavity underneath it hollowed, there are sometimes little indentations on the windway floor where the bottom of the mouthpiece tapers upward and meets the beak. The indentations are the result of the plastic having shrunk down at that spot on cooling after casting.

At that place on the mouthpiece, because of the geometry, it’s impossible to avoid having the plastic thicker. If the plastic under the whole windway were solid all the way from the windway floor to the outside of the whistlehead, I seriously doubt the mass production process would able to produce consistant, accurate results.

I’ve also found that filling that cavity has only improved the voicing of the whistle. I’ve never found that the quality of the upper notes suffers from this. I’ve also found that carefully adjusting the sharpness of the windcutter blade edge and making the windcutter ramp as smooth (polished, if possible) and as perfectly flat as possible strengthens, clarifies and sweetens the upper register, if that’s needed.

Thomas, I have only the highest respect for your experience, and I’m grateful for your willingness to share information. I hope you won’t be unhappy with me if I tell you I’m not in agreement with your theory on this.

Best wishes,
Jerry

18

“Paraboloid harmonic reflector” sounds impressive, but I can’t see how it would do anything. Usually a paraboloid reflector is used with a relatively small source placed at the focus. Waves from the source hitting the reflector will bounce off in a direction approximately parallel to the axis of symmetry of the paraboloid. (It’s very easy to see this using a little calculus and the fact that the angle of incidence equals the angle of reflection.) It works in reverse too: incoming waves hitting the reflector from a direction parallel to the axis will be reflected to the focus.

So I don’t understand what’s going on with this cavity under the windway. If it is a parabolic reflector, what is it reflecting, and in what direction is it reflecting whatever it is reflecting? It seems too tiny relative to any conceivable sound source to be effective at doing anything specific.

19

My impression is that the cavity under the windway is only there to facilitate the injection molding process. I believe the main thing it does accoustically, is to create random turbulance in the airflow in the mouthpiece, the result of which is a less stable, less focused voice and a less playable whistle.

Best wishes,
Jerry

20

Maybe the P.H.R. is supposed to play the same role as the area between the embouchure hole and tuning cork on the flute. I propose that if the P.H.R. area does do something (like reflect the sound instead of just adding turbulence) that it can be tested as follows:

  1. With the P.H.R. clear of all foreign materials play the whistle and set the fipple to playing position using an electronic tuner, mark the tube where the plastic ends and the metal begins.

  2. With the P.H.R all the way full of foreign material (tak or wax or whatever) again set the fipple to playing position using an electronic tuner.

I propose that if the P.H.R area does indeed reflect sound that you will have to pull the fipple out a bit to be in tune when P.H.R. area is full of material; this would compensate tuning wise for that lost bit of area that is now full of foreign material, and therefore not resonating as part of the instrument.

I plan on trying this out sometime soon, being as today is Sunday, it will be a non-tweaking day.

Later,

Monster