I’m a beginner (several months now), but play/practice almost daily - sometimes for hours at a time. I’m going through the Bro. Steve tutorials (again) to work on ornamentation and am ready to pack it all in over rolls. I just can’t get them up to speed and they sound like 5 individual notes. Any tips? I like Bro. Steve’s daaah-blaaah-blaaah idea, but it doesn’t make my middle finger work any faster. It takes me back to my youth when we used to tease my brother because instead of calling a cat “Here, kitty, kitty, kitty…” he’d say slowly, “Here, kid-dee, kid-dee, kid-dee…” He just couldn’t make his tongue go any faster. I’m doing well on cuts and taps, but can’t seem to put them together into a roll. Could I get some encouragement here before I throw in the towel and take up basket-weaving?
Susan
I feel your pain, for I too am a beginner, and I too, cannot say the phrase, “Here Kitty Kitty Kitty.”
Ok, so I can say the phrase, but there sure are a lot of things about the whistle that have me baffled! (I haven’t even attempted to do a roll yet!) But that’s not such a bad thing, as I see it. It means there will always be a challenge.
Keep on keepin’ on, Susan! It’ll happen! And then there will be some other thing that has you tearing out your hair. Besides, basket weaving can be complicated too. I figure you might as well stay with the whistle, because if you start weaving baskets, you’ll be right back to square one!
[ This Message was edited by: belcatar on 2002-04-28 04:05 ]
I have a tip that you may or may not find useful, and I think this only works for people do not have very good finger independence (which is obtained from playing other instruments) and cut their rolls with the left ring finger.
You can get a nice “blip” for your cuts if you focus on flicking up your left pinky finger. If your finger motor independence is not good, your ring finger will also be automatically lifted up because of your pinky movement, just enough to give a quick cut.
Also make sure your fingers are relaxed. You can’t play very fast if your fingers are tensed, and ornaments turn out less crisp then they ought to be.
You might also want to practise rolls very very slowly until you get satisfactory cuts and taps, with proper roll rhythm (da blah blah) before you try them at a normal roll speed. I think it’ll be only a matter of time and practise before you’ll be rolling away.
Second the last of that. Patience and
do the rolls slowly, really slowly.
Cut, tap.
Cut, tap. Don’t worry, it’ll come.
The key to practice is to be willing
to do things very, very slowly, I think.
Try mouthing “doy-loy-loy” while you play (after trying dahblablah). Honest.Its not what you finally do but it helped me for a while.
Other miscellaneous tips:
Low E was breathrough roll for me, maybe it will be for you?
Long roll with fourth eighth note, the way it occurs in reels, was good for practicing. It gives you someway to cycle back when you are repeating over and over. I am still a bit intimidated by jig rolls, like first note of Kesh.
In my case, low e roll followed by b, in Hare in the Heather, was one I practiced over and over again. You have to find one that you can play with confidence before moving on to others.It may even depend on the whistle and your way of breathing to find the easiest one.
[ This Message was edited by: The Weekenders on 2002-04-28 11:28 ]
Susan,
placing the roll under a magnififying glass after such a relatively short time of playing can be counter productive and lead to frustration.It took me years to execute a convincing roll on fiddle and knowing the mechanics and what to listen for,although a great help on whistle, still needs a few patient years of practice to really nail it.Good roll playing on fiddle simply comes from years of experience,whistles are no exeption to this rule.Over-emphasis of ornamentation in practice can lead to stagnation and even lead to style of playing that may sound overly busy.A tune played with sparse ornamentation such as Jerry O´Sullivan,s beautiful bare bones rendition of O´Carolans farewell to music can be absolutely staggering. Peace, Mike 
Here’s an approach which is a bit unorthodox but which might help you out. Do the reverse of the standard advice: instead of starting by trying to get a clear five notes, think of the roll as a blur of notes, a short lingering on the first note followed by a flick of the other fingers. Once you get the FEEL for it, you might find it easier to come back, slow down, and make your execution more precise.
Hope this helps,
Jon Michaels
Great ideas - thanks all. I have been pondering Mike’s post and think I’ve found my answer. I’ve been doing very well, coming along with cuts and taps, but felt like rolls were something I “should” be doing so I started to work on them. I’ll set them aside now and try again in a few months or more - when I feel like it.
Susan
On 2002-04-28 10:42, susnfx wrote:
Great ideas - thanks all. I have been pondering Mike’s post and think I’ve found my answer. I’ve been doing very well, coming along with cuts and taps, but felt like rolls were something I “should” be doing so I started to work on them. I’ll set them aside now and try again in a few months or more - when I feel like it.
Susan
There you go! Develop your own style, and remember, everything comes with time.
Mary
Hey Susan,
If you can make it out to the session tonight, one of the best teachers for whistles/ornamentation, is a LIVE teacher. We’ve got three or four really top-notch whistle players at most of our sessions who would be thrilled to teach you some tricks.
Drop me a note if you’re interested.
I’ll fill you in on all the details. We’re sessioning just about every week now, so there’s gotta be ONE you could make it out to!
Brian~
Don’t feel too bad. I have fingers of mud as well. I can’t even play most jigs without my fingers getting all confused.
blah.
I have bad coordination and muscle control anyhow.
I found a solution though: just play slower stuff!
I’ve been playing for a few years and have yet to do a decent roll. I have a couple of bits of experience from other instruments, though. First, I’ve found that sometimes progress comes a bit at a time, but sometimes it comes in fits and starts. Second, the fits and starts may not even come while you’re playing. There have been many pieces that I’ve never quite gotten right, then, while running, lying awake at night, or even out of the middle of nowhere, I somehow have “seen” the mechanics of it. Finally, if you’ve done something right once, eventually you’ll be able do do it right when you need to. So if you’ve done even one decent roll, or when you do, recall it whenever you become frustrated.
Charlie
My friend Dale had advice on this which helped me alot, once I finally wised up enough to listen to it. Play the note whose roll you want to work on and tap your foot slowly. With the first foot tap, do a cut, with the second a tap, with the third a cut, and so on and so forth, till you have to stop and gasp for breath. Repeat ad nausem.
Another thing I can remember helping a lot was playing along with fairly inexperienced fiddle players learning a tune. At that very slow pace, there was plenty of time to think about where to place each cut and tap to get the effect of three eighth notes in a row. It was like a lightbulb coming on over my head…
Susan,
See my new post, “learning without a teacher” You may be interested. If not, that is ok too!
Sue