Hi Whistlers,
My rolls don’t sound like the rolls in tunes more like single notes 
how long does it take to get to grips, how long should I practice perfecting rolls?
thanks
L2w
Forever!
But, more helpfully, make sure you’re got really tight cuts and strikes first before incorporating into rolls, then practise your rolls slowly and rhythmically, but always still keeping those cuts and strikes as tight as you can get them. And keep returning to this drill forever (even when long past the beginner stage), especially if/when you find your rolls starting to get sloppy again.
Hi,
Thanks for the helpful reply so I gather whistle rolls and techniques are like other skills that take practice to gain… If you don’t practice it you’ll lose it 
L2W
It is, first off, a matter of understanding what the roll is supposed to sound like rhythmically, as Peter has pointed out, then playing them enough to get the fingers to produce that rhythm. That will take some playing, how much varies by individual. Call it practice if you like. Once you have that down it is unlikely that you will loose it, provided you keep playing.
Remember it’s called “playing” for a reason. Have fun making music.
Feadoggie
I have trouble with rolls too. I listen to some people play in recordings and have no idea how they make the sounds they do. My tunes are very plain and lack much ornamentation, but I guess I don’t play often enough.
I too still struggle with getting rolls consistently right. Practice is the way. And then some more practice.
I do listen a lot to tunes as every whistler doesn’t play (roll) the same way.
I’ve heard Mary Bergin and others suggest that, regardless of what you hear whistlers playing, you should practice rolls at a strict timing with equal time give to the note, cut and tap. The cut and tap are opposites in a way, the first requiring minimal movement of the cutting figure to get just a blip, the tap requiring the finger to be pulled back in a large movement to give maximum striking effect. Once those two ornaments are joined together they will become faster and tighter given practice and then eventually the different timing of the elements your hear in tunes can be practiced too. But in hurrying to get the tempo right you may end up getting sloppy in either the cut or tap. I did and it had to be pointed out to me in a lesson. And it takes time!! I started three years ago on a low whistle and am reasonably happy now about my rolls but they still need practice.
I agree with this, but I think the wording is misleading. I would guess that what Mary and others were suggesting is that you divide the rolled note into three parts that are equal in length, with the second two being articulated by the cut and tap (which do need to be very tight and snappy).
This is the basis of Bro Steve’s dah-blah-blah method which Peter linked to above. Once you have that down you can vary the timing to make “swung rolls” (the idea that the rhythm is like that of a bouncing ball, with each successive bounce getting shorter) and other varieties of roll that I never got around to describing on those pages (and probably never will).
I strongly believe ornamentation is very much context dependent. A friend of mine used to say (twenty years ago) ‘modern players, they sound like they’ve been taught’. And in I can see what he was (is) getting at. There are players who play their ornaments exactly the same each time, like they were learned out of context and then dropped into tunes. That can make them sound very (too) deliberate and have them stand out like a sore thumb.
So that’s my thought for the day (my head is full of yet unsorted impressions, I am knee deep in Willie week and sinking deeper)
This sounds like a variation on the idea (to which I don’t wholly subscribe, let me hasten to add) that if you need lessons to learn to play this music you’ll never amount to anything.
http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/brosteve/meditation.html#Ear
This sounds like a variation on the idea (to which I don’t wholly subscribe, let me hasten to add) that if you need lessons to learn to play this music you’ll never amount to anything.
I don’t think it is. It’s relates to different way of acquiring music. It’s along the same lines as someone who said a while ago that the old Sean Nos singers just sang while the younger ones are very aware and consciously putting in their ornaments and warbles. It’s the difference between hearing things done and absorbing it and being taught and being told what to do and where to do it.
Realising not everybody can sit down with traditional musicians (as opposed to people playing traditional tunes) and learn by immersion I am not fully decided on how to go about it. I would probably favour a mentoring system over weekly lessons. Or occasional lessons to keep you on the right track. Being in the company of traditional players, even if it’s only occasionally, is essential. That’s how I feel anyway, not for the technical bits but for thoughts, attitudes, context, cups of tea and sandwiches and the whole lot of it.
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I don’t know, it’s my 34th Willie week. They have all melded into one big blur. But it’s nice to dip into, shake a few hands of the familiar faces and pick up a few tunes to learn.
The annual series of snaps is in progress, I haven’t organised it much yet, or made public, but the first batch (monday’s pics) is here. Tuesday’s shots, including the whistle/flute recital, going up shortly. I may announce it in a separate thread.
My own opinion, expressed readily, is that you would be well advised not to engage with any ornamentation untill you can actually play a bunch of tunes well, with lift verve and excitement, at the correct pace. Vary the way you play in your phrasing , like you singing a song with different lyrics requiring different caddences etc . , keep at your practical physical practice or rolls etc but studiously avoid useing them untill they arrise spontaneously.
There are 2 approaches as I see it; rote learning of every cut and crann, as played by Willie Clancy or whoever, and I think this is a very valid approach but After the basics have been covered , not before , not the 'Irish whistle ’ basics, but musical basics. …