I found this video https://youtu.be/fl0OObBWCe8 on YouTube showing bellows blowing (watch from 3.18 – 3.35). The problem is that in my case I have to count to 10 or 12 before I can do a stroke with bellows. If I do it every 4 or 5 seconds, then I can use only small tiny bit of bellows stroke. Mybe his chanter reed eats much more air than mine or he just have big bag and small bellows.
Originaly I read in one of the forums from a piper who owns Wooff full set that using full bellows strokes is the proper way!? Now, I am not complete begginer, but more I am doing elimination of some old bad habits as I am starting again after long years break. I know drones would solve this problem partly, but I plan to own only practice set for min. 5 years and want to do it in a proper way using full bellows stroke.
So I think that smaller bellows with same bag or bigger bag+smaller bellows would be one of the solutions for my problem? I use to think “bigger is better” for bellows, but I am starting to totaly doubt this theory, especialy for practice sets! I asked this question to 2 players, but they both changed the subject like they didn’t have some good answer. Any expert out there? Thanks!
P.S. If I do count to 10 or 12 then a new question arise - how empty the bag can be - i.e. where is the point when new bellows stroke becomes a must?
I don’t know if this is a common way to look at bag/bellows technique, but I was told in a lesson early on that you want to aim to keep the bag at about 80% capacity. Use the bellows as necessary to maintain that capacity with smooth strokes. In the lesson there was no emphasis on seconds per stroke. I’ve taken a couple “beginner” lessons from different pipers, and seconds per stroke was never mentioned.
A side note about waiting to get drones, I was recommended by multiple pipers/makers to get drones sooner than later. For reasons like you were talking about, getting used to providing consistent air pressure to the drones. Understandably it can be hard to purchase a half set in the beginning, and practice sets are still a great way to get started.
My teacher recommended I go ahead and get drones once I had gotten to the point where I had control of the bellows and bag with just the chanter and had learned a couple tunes. He told me it would help a lot with technique as I would learn to keep steadier air pressure and I could get the “complete” sound to get used to tuning and adjusting by ear. Once I got the drones reeds adjusted to a nice efficient and in tune setting he was absolutely right. it has helped a lot.
you fill the bag to 80-ish % percent, when needed. That’s all there’s to it, using small bellows strokes is inefficient. If your set uses more air, leaks, full blast regulators or for whatever other reason, you’d pump more frequently, if you’re on a practice set you may get through a whole part without a refill.
What works for me in keeping that bag topped off (hence the name of the tune Top it Off
is to use full bellows strokes. One pushes past that initial resistance phase of the stroke.
Thank you for help. Yes, the drones would help, but I will have to wait. Meanwhile I have to do it properly with practice set only.
It sounds easy in theory, but if I want to accomplish this in practice, I need to wait every time until the bag is exactly 1/2 empty.
So, mybe this works better with your flat sets, but with D chanter it becomes realy hard to blow with that empty bag!? Is this usual-normal scenario for practice sets with Rowsome style chanters?
Is this for real? So the theory of many people “full bag all the time” is wrong?
Currently I play good Kelleher standard shape Bag and Bellows and I need 3 strokes to fill the bag from empty to 100% full.
Don’t you think buying small efficiet bellows would be best solution for time without drones/Plus mybe changing from Kelleher standard shape to their bigger volume O’Briain shape bag ?
So, mybe this works better with your flat sets, but with D chanter it becomes realy hard to blow with that empty bag!?
It really shouldn’t make much difference, one chanter wouldn’t take much air so it isn’t hard to keep going,
I have played through a whole part with the drones going with the bellows disconnected. Mind you the bag is now half my own age and really would need seasoning to keep all air in as it used to, so I probaly wouldn’t be able to do so now on the flat set.
It’s not a mathematical thing, so I don’t think it’s helpful to put numbers on it.
Also, it’s not about the volume of air, but more about air pressure in the bag. If I feel I have squeezing too hard with my left elbow, I know it’s time to pump the bellows. Usually this requires a little less than a full stroke of the bellows.
I find this as well, and I just keep in mind using as full and as smooth bellows strokes as I can.
And regarding flat chanters, I play regularly on D and B chanters. It seems that they both take about the same air, and I don’t have to adjust my bellows technique, with differences in air pressure between different reeds.
This is my approach as well - less about the volume of air in the bag and more about balancing between pressure and force applied. If I’m applying too much force to gain the pressure I need, time to draw from the bellows. If I’m applying too little force with a lot of pressure present (usually signaled by a croaking back d), then it’s time to back off the pumping.
Another habit worth forming is that when you are not actually pumping the bellows you should hold them in the open position,not the closed position as so many pipers do. Two reasons for this is that the bellows is full before you to start your stroke and the stroke is also shorter.
You might be fixating too much on bellows technique. Get on with learning tunes. Bellows technique will just happen when you stop thinking about it. It’s a little like breathing when you sign. You might have to think about when you take a particularly deep breadth when you are learning a song, but once you have learned it and sang it a few times, you no longer have to think about when to adjust your breathing: you do it subconsciously.
Hey thanks! I’m not the OP, but that’s a really good way of thinking about it and one that I will take away from this thread for sure. The purpose of developing good bellows technique is to create a consistent, even tone throughout the scale with steady drones. So one should shift the focus of practice from the technique on bellows to creating and maintaining consistency of the sound throughout a tune.
The purpose of developing good bellows technique is to create a consistent, even tone throughout the scale with steady drones.
Sorry to be contrary but consistency of sound, pressure control, is achieved with the bag arm, the bellows only supplies the air. Which is ofcourse important but the bellows should not at any time influence your sound (ie not overfill or have you run out, no wobbles in the sound of your drones when you fill up the bag or that sort of thing. The bag is in control of all that).
I just heard someone finish a slow air, after it ended and the chanter released, it sounded, ruining the effect of the ending. That’s over-filling the bag. When you finish your tune you release the bag arm, the pipes stop.
As others have said, the bellows is only there to keep the bag at a comfortable level - not too full (lack of control), and not too empty (difficult to blow).
I too started out watching that David Daye video, and it’s a great exercise when you’re starting out and everything you’re doing is very “conscious”. The purpose of the exercise is to get used to the feeling and concept of feeding the bag with air and maintaining a steady note while you do it. Maintaining a steady note is very important, and you should definitely practise this a lot. You eventually want this all to be almost subconscious, and it will happen.
I would like to point you to other videos of pipers, such as this one with Mark Redmond: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02dnYeyi0ko
Notice how even though he has drones and regulators going, his bellows strokes are smooth and measured. Slow, smooth strokes are going to give you a more even bag pressure and far more importantly, better economy of movement rather than stabbing at the bellows. Notice how he looks like he’s hardly exerting himself at all.
David’s exercise is great because it’s all about learning to deal with the initial challenges of holding a steady note, but I would also try to be steady and measured with your bellows strokes. Having a bellows with lots of air volume is a really good thing!
Your aim is to:
relax - don’t tense up too much in your shoulders or fingers (death grip!)
don’t overfill the bag - you’ll lose control over the air output
maintain a steady note - this should be all controlled with your bag arm, not by overfilling the bag to maintain pressure
steady, measured bellows strokes when you need more air
But when he is playing without drones here https://youtu.be/Uf0BU373ZCk I think he uses only small part of the stroke, not full strokes!
Or example of mighty John Mcsherry (when he was younger) https://youtu.be/k0KQTv8qvkE Here we can see very clearly that only small beggining part of strokes are used, not full strokes, so now it’s getting a bit confused, to use full strokes or not full strokes. Mybe both ways are right and there is no universal truth, as long it is smooth? Any more thoughts. Thank you everyone
