Hi,
What’s the difference between pre-1980’s Generation whistles and the later ones ?
I know there was a change in the design of the mouth piece, but what exactly ?
If somebody could post some pics, that would be great.
Thanks,
Bernez
If you are trying to identify an older whistle versus newer models, there is a pronounced oval shape molded into the underside of the mouthpiece on the older heads. Newer ones are smooth.
Here’s a photo from another thread. I’ll look for other pics that could help.
Other than that one difference I personally have not cataloged any other minutia in variations.
Feadoggie
The plastic headed ones of the 60-70s had a narrower window, which made for a different balance/voicing. They’re slightly quieter and (equally slightly) better balanced between the octaves.
I was assuming you were asking about the plastic head Gens. Peter’s family tree photo of Gens through the generations is beautiful.
The molding process of the older plastic heads left a noticeable ridge at the parting line of the molds. That is visable on both the top and bottom of the older plastic heads. Peter mentioned the difference in window and windway size too. There are also some differences between the ramp shape especially the “bump”. Thankfully the character of the whistles is still similar. Older whistle is up top.
Here’s handful of older Gens I grabbed from my box just to show the variation in the backs of the heads. Not an artistic photo but hopefully an informative one.
Hope that helps.
Feadoggie
Thanks a lot for the pics, Feadoggie and Peter,
I can now clearly see the differences 
It looks like I have 3 pre-1980’s (C, D, Eb). All my other Gen’s are modern ones.
There’s one on ebay advertised as a 1960’s Gen, but I already had some doubts. It’s why I asked.
Thanks again.
Bernez
BTW, do you know in which year Generation made the change 
I do not have an exact date. In fact I will admit to being totally oblivious to the change when it occurred. As a buyer of Gens it was hard to tell. You buy your whistles and they last a long time. I only buy new ones when the old ones give up the ghost or when I’ve been caught out without a whistle to play. Then when you consider that some shops may have old stock on the shelves for quite a few years a player may not see a difference until years after production methods changed.
But the date has been discussed here as a matter of historical curiosity. I believe MTGuru may have been working in a large music shop at the time and he has estimated the change happened sometime in the mid 1980’s. Hopefully he will add his perspective here. I think Jerry Freeman (who has probably seen more Generations than all of us combined) may have some idea of a rough date as well. You can search through old threads here to read the discussions if you like.
Feadoggie
Around 1981/2 there was a D whistle available in Ireland under the name ‘Darra’ They were brass with a green top with a green label showing an Irish harp.
I don’t know anything about them but my impression has always been these were a test run, the head was identical the new Generation design. It may also have been a marketing ploy, an attempt at shedding the ‘british made’ label for the Irish market, tensions were high at the time.
Anyhow, Generation whistles were sporting the new head design soon after.
Yes, that’s right. As I recall, the new heads began showing up in the US distribution channels around 1984. Which is consistent with Mr. G’s estimate.
Here’s the Darra whistle:
pic is a bit of a rush job, am cooking the dinner at the minute.
Very interesting, Mr. G.
If we can find identifying mold marks, we may be able to determine whether or not the Darra whistle was made with the same tooling as current Generations.
Here’s the photo of current Generations showing identifying mold marks.
Left to right: D/Eb, three dots (left side); D/Eb, faint concentric rings; Bb one dot (top); Bb two dots.
Originally, there were more cavities than two, as one or more cavity has worn out and been retired. If, for example, you see one or two dots similar to the three dots visible on the end of the Generation D/Eb whistlehead on the left, I would take that as strong enough evidence that the same tooling was used for the Darra and current Generation whistleheads.
(By way of explanation, one set of injection molding tooling will have several cavities making parts that appear identical except for the mark identifying which cavity produced which part.)
Best wishes,
Jerry
Great information, thx Jerry.
Two dots on the top (window) side and (as far as I can see now) concentric rings. You’ll have noticed it needs cleaning and the head has never been removed in all those years so the view is not the best. Two dots for sure though.
I would say that raises the possibility that whistlehead came from current Generation tooling to at least 50/50. Now if anyone can find an old, current tooling Generation with those same marks, we’ll know for certain.
Best wishes,
Jerry
The lenght of the head of my modern D is 2.256" (57.30mm)
The voicing window 0.223" X 0.315" (5.70mm X 8.00mm)
The external diameter at the barrel side is 0.650" (16.50mm)
The embouchure is 0.335"X 0.079" (8.50mm X 2.00mm)
Bernez
I love this stuff…! talking about the history and production methods of whistlemaking. Fascinating.
Was there really politics involved between Gen and Darra whistles? Any resources on that?
Any resources on that?
I don’t know anything about them but my impression has always been these were a test run> , the head was identical the new Generation design. It > may > also have been a marketing ploy, an attempt at shedding the ‘british made’ label for the Irish market, tensions were high at the time.Anyhow, Generation whistles were sporting the new head design soon after.
Who made them and why, who owned the tooling bits, it’s all speculation.
As are most details regarding the mysterious Elves of Oswestry.
Until more data becomes available, I’ll go with this working hypothesis:
Someone adapted the design of Generation’s whistleheads and began production. For one reason or another, they sold the tooling to Generation. That would be plausible, since Generation wouldn’t want the competition, it would be a way for the creators of the tooling to recover their investment and make a profit, and Generation’s existing tooling from the late 1950’s was obsolete and possibly wearing out.
Bearing the established world leading Generation brand, rather than an unknown brand, whistleheads from the tooling could realize far more business than if it remained with the original makers. Because of that, the people who made the tooling may have run the numbers of their projected sales compared to Generation’s much greater projected sales using the tooling, made a case to Generation that the tooling was worth more in Generation’s hands, and realized an acceptable profit in the transaction.
The fact that the cavity identifying mark is in the same position as on current Generation whistleheads is a meaningful correlation, as there are other positions where such marks can be found, and I don’t know of another maker who puts their marks there.
Best wishes,
Jerry
Edited to add: Mr.G’s hypothesis about Generation trying to shed the “British Made” stigma to address the Irish market is just as plausible. In any case, the next step will be to try to confirm conclusively that the Darra whistlehead was made with the same tooling as current Generations.
Somebody who speaks english beter than I, could maybe contact Generation and just ask about this matter.
They seems to have staff members who have worked for them for over 30 years. They should know !
http://www.generationmusic.co.uk/home-1160.html