Hi, I know that this has been discussed before. I used the search engine but never got the information that I am looking for. Can anyone direct me to posts about, or tell me how one identifies a Generation as “vintage”. '80’s say. I know the metal is thicker but isn’t there a tell in the mouthpiece. Something about the ridge in the middle. Ridge=newer, no ridge=older? Or do I have it backwards? Thanks for your help!
Above, three pre-80s
Below: l to r red top/brass D, blue top/nickel C , both pre 80s for comparison: late 80s blue top/nickel C.
Tube same (although I have an Eflat I bought in 1971 that seems to have a seam at the back of the tube so probably made from rolled stock rather than extruded tube), top: note ridge through middle of top and smaller ‘bulge’ in (the slightly narrower) window compared to later ones.
Thanks Peter, I saw that photo. More specifically, I’m curious about the plastic tops and their ridge or no ridge.
Sorry, I wasn’t done yet, just popped outside braving the elements to take another piccie. See above.
Thanks Peter!! You’re a Treasure!!!
I certainly have some Generations kicking around, for comparison, but I have given away sooooo many of my “cheapies”… mostly to children who expressed delight in such a simple instrument that looks like a toy! Who would have thought that vintage Gen. whistles would be so desirable?!..The next Sindt maybe? chuckle, chuckle…
Who would have thought that vintage Gen. whistles would be so desirable?!..The next Sindt maybe? chuckle, chuckle…
They’re not. They’re as variable as the new ones, only voiced slightly different. Like the new ones, some are very nice, some are not. And like the new ones, if you get a really nice one, you’re flying. But it would be foolish to think they are all great, desirable or whatever. Most of them are just decent little whistles, again just like the new ones. There’s no magic.
And then there’s always an element of subjectivity. I have a number of Cs here, old as well as new(er). I think they are all very similar but there’s one particularly mangled one that Micho Russell borrowed from me several times, to do concerts or radio stuff. It’s fine although maybe nothing unusual but he always wanted that one and he’d come looking for me to get it.
Thanks for that info and that’s an awesome Micho connection there!! I’m sure between the two of you, you put some magic in that particular C. Truly though, one does come across gems amongst them. I’ve found great ones before. Some really good Feadog’s and Soodlum’s as well. But alas, gave them all away. May have lost a few certainly. One does hear the story of those mythical gems for sure and it’s nice to know that they are still out there. Maybe I’ll just consider a good set of modern tweaked Generations. I must be putting some ill perceived notion of “value” on the vintage Gens. Thanks again. This info may same me from “stupidly” sacrificing some Sindt"s towards a trade.
The only thing you can do is go looking for a nice one and hope you’ll find one that you can have.
I came across one, a blue top nickel one, that was unbelievably nice seven years ago. It had belonged to a, deceased, very fine player and had sat in his flute case for fifteen years since his death. I played it for a bit and put it back. If I had asked I would probably have been given it but I didn’t want to do that. Such is life. Nicest whistle I ever played though.
Tweaked whistles, in my opinion, don’t really have the same little thing the good ones have. No matter how much they try to tell you otherwise in their blurb. They’re fine in their own right but not even remotely sound like an top of the range old Gen (or a mediocre one for that matter).
Thanks for your insight Peter! That’s great advice and so true…I have come across good ones over the years. I think that I found a pretty decent C recently acquired amongst a vase full of recorder type stuff that I got for $20. Sent the rest to Haiti with my girl who was there recently on a humanitarian mission. I haven’t really been looking but with all the recent talk about Sindt’s. I was contemplating going back to Gens. No rush though. I’ll keep my eyes, ears and fingers open for a magic cheapie and in the meantime be happy with the Sindt set.
Amen, my thought exactly, at least with some sorts of modifications, which change the basic nature of the Generation.
There’s a certain special tone, and special “action” or voicing, that really good Generations have, that for me sets them apart from all other whistles.
There’s another sort of modification that, at least the way I’ve been doing it, does NOT destroy these desirable features, but allows one to take a mediocre Generation and help it play like a really good one: sawing the head through, crossways, right through the middle of the window, and gluing the two halves back together. There’s a point where the glue (good old-fashioned Styrene Cement) has started to harden just a bit, and one can play with various alignments of the two halves, and find the optimal alignment between the chimney and the blade. (This optimal position being found through playing and not by some theory.)
I’ve done several of these with great results: the exceedingly sweet pure 2nd octave, the round full 1st octave, good intonation between the octaves, and nimble “action” between the octaves (all the things I prize). And, the characteristic tone of a good Generation is fully intact.
Interesting. Only recently I got a rather raspy Gen, and I’d love to give it a try!
But doesn’t this decrease the length of the window a bit, due to the plastic sawdust? – What kind of saw do you use for that? Or maybe that’s just part of the improvement…?
MrG, about pre and post 80s Generations, I thought the pre-80 molding process used to leave a round shape mark on the back of the tip, while the new one doesn’t leave any mark :
Blue : circa 80 Bb gen, red 2013 Bb gen. The 2013 sounds better BTW.
I have 3 pre or circa 80 generations, all of them have the round mark, and none of my recent ones has it. Is this rule always true ?
Yes, forgot about that one.
Here’s a few more:
Is this a signaling of the bubble bursting on high end whistles and a zest for the less expensive ones?
I picked up a nice playing Soodlum last week and the book was good too.
Not from me. 
Looks like you let your Labrador Retriever play some of those… 
Best wishes.
Steve
They’re for one very dirty, I noticed when I laid them out on the table after taking them out of the vase they live in. They’re not actually chewed although the two smaller ones have had damaging run ins with the flagstone floor, never a good idea for age-brittled plastic. And they have been knocking around for nearly 35 years, being thrown in boxes, sitting in vases or on tables, going here, going there and all that.
I own a few old Generations and in my opinion are better whistles than an off the shelf new one.
I’ve some good and some awful but the old style seem to be have a less harsh tone and lighter to play. Some of the non-invasive tweaks can improve it even more.
Does anyone have recordings of both a “good” Gen and a mediocre one? I’ve always wanted to compare side-by-side. Heaven knows you’d never know the difference in my hands, even if I found a great one.