My whistling journey has taken me to a strange realisation of sorts let me elaborate
Since this thread Newbie whistler, Rolling technique - query I’ve been learning/practicing the Cut, Strike and when both are combined it’s a Roll for the more recent beginners these are not Martial Art techniques they are actually little/minuet finger flourishes executed during a piece of music that gives Irish Traditional Music it’s unique sound. I’ve come to understand these movements are commonly referred to as ornaments.
So ornaments it be’s, now onto my topic “Flowing Music” during practice tonight I was working on the tune below, kindly provided by a fellow student for learning and discussion.
This piece has a some nice parts very usable for the practice of Rolls. The Cuts & Strike being denoted by the grace notes between notation for notes of same pitch. Tonight while practicing I did something a little alien to me, i.e. I forced myself not to tongue the opening note of any roll as is my habit since Ryan Dunns suggested to his students to accentuate a roll by tonguing. Without tonguing while playing the piece, enabled a much more flowing piece of music for me to play. The rolls just melted into the melody and eliminated possible micro hesitation on my part while trying to tongue the opening note in the Roll. I came away from practice tonight with a good feeling and sense of achievement. Which is not to say “No more tonguing” but rather be more aware of the obstacles it can create for me at least. I think I’m onto something
Hi Jleo Fipple. Nice tune that. Where’s the second part? I’m afraid the transcription over on the session.org is fairly woeful, so I’m hunting out another for you …
Jleo: An important thing to notice about your written-out version above: All it’s saying is that the dotted crotchets are rolled. That’s the generalization that you should take away.
In general, when you see (or really, hear) a crotchet or dotted crotchet in a reel, that’s an opportunity to do something with the note - a roll, a cut, a slide, a melodic variation, etc. You don’t have to take the opportunity; that’s a matter of musical judgment. But in those terms, the basic version cited by Ben is actually clearer than the fussy written-out version. It makes it easier to think of rolls as units - single ornaments on single notes - rather than as a series of individual finger strokes suggested by all the graces.
That’s my fault, I’m sorry. I wanted to write it including the rolls*, but I didn’t knew how to write correct roll in ABC notation. Actually it wasn’t problem with roll itself rather with notes at all (length of notes and so). I don’t know notes and this was my attept to rewrite it from recorded playing.
*) Because result I’m using to remember** how that tunes sounds. When I forget it, I use EasyABC which replays me forgoten tune. **) OT: How english distinguishes difference between “something which I wrote in my brain” and “something which was in my brain but I forgot it and now I need refresh it”? Both (zapamatovat / vzpomenout) is translated as “remember” by dictionary.
Ah, OK. Actually, if you use the standard Irish roll notation ( A~F3 AFEF etc.), I think many ABC players will try to play it correctly as a roll (at least more or less).
When I write this roll with graces, I would probably write AF{A}F{E}F with an {A} cut instead of {G}. Because it more accurately represents the fingering.
Interesting. I’m not sure that English makes a clear distinction between the two. For the first sense, I might use the term “memory aid” or even the French expression “aide-mémoire” - a physical representation of something that is already in your head.
Colloquial English usage doesn’t seem to concern itself with the difference between memory and recall, but I do differentiate between them. I see memory as including the meaning of storage, or the passive, and see recall (remembering) as meaning retrieval, or the active; two different things for me, although they are inseparable. In fact, I often use the word “retrieval” over “recall” just because it’s more clear. So, English really does have appropriate words available to us for these differences, but whether the fine points stopped being (culturally?) important at one time, or they never were, I can’t say. Nevertheless, we can differentiate if we need to. For example, I’m of the firm conviction that once something is memorised, it’s pretty much always there for you and waiting to be tapped (indeed I suspect things go into memory far better than we know), but remembering/recall/retrieval/access (whatever you want to call it) is another matter.
Ouch, another mistake. If I play it, I cutting “A”, of course. Wrong written. Index finger of lower hand still holds closed hole (actually it can hold it for whole tune if I remember correctly).
A few weeks I have it written like this (the main problem, which I previously had, was the length of rolled note):
I wouldn’t call it a mistake. I think it’s common to write out a roll exactly as you did with “note above” and “note below” without worrying about the actual pitches. The player will use his/her preferred roll fingering anyway.
Yes, that’s right. There’s no G in the tune (it’s pentatonic), so you can keep the B1 index finger down for “super lazy fingering”. But when I play it, my finger always comes off on the d-to-B transition.
Sure, that looks fine. Sometimes, you will see offbeat rolls like this written as AF~F2 etc. instead of A~F3. But the intended meaning is the same.
The Flow of the music in Traditional Music is not a hear say I realise. Its a very relevant quandary as in right now. From my my humble understanding of Celtic music, how it is perceived by the listener and player is a subject that waffes in the ears of more adept and knowledgeable players than me of this very specific Celtic originated musical style. The one aspect of the subject of traditional music that intrigues me most now (be aware I’m not adept in the History) but in my short study time on the revival of Traditional music was based around the facts provided on the study of old stringed harp (O’Hampsey, Carolan and others)and what was apparently lost was the accompaniment and the original playing style all we inherited was the vestiges of the melodies by notation and audible representation. Hence this post for more in depth actual playing quandaries visit this thread Slurring, tonguing and the lazy/undecided mind? it provides some very interesting insights. Be mindful I’m not here posting to be contrary these are my own impressions and I’m very open to discussion and enlightenment.
they are actually little/minuet finger flourishes executed during a piece of music that gives Irish Traditional Music it’s unique sound. I’ve come to understand these movements are commonly referred to as ornaments.
