Hi .
Im new to flute playing , having played pipes for a long time I find it easier to use a pipers grip on the flute . my question is , will this inhibit me for future playing.
Thanks
Thomas
No, it won’t inhibit you. Lots of flute players use the piper’s grip. The one caveat, though, is that you may have to adjust it a bit if you ever start playing a keyed flute, to account for the presence of the key mounts. The basic rule with respect to holding the flute is to do it in whatever way is the most comfortable for you - which is not necessarily the way that other players might find comfortable.
Actually, Thomas, I envy you. I think you’ll become an excellent player using a piper’s grip. I think it really lends itself to good rolling ornaments because the fingers are more relaxed and have less curvature which, to me, seems to make movement more flowing and natural to the playing of a tune. I was too steeped in Boehm playing to give it a serious go, but I think it’s the best way to go.
Anyone have an opinion about this?
I’ve shifted to pipers on D flutes and lower,
as I have a cyst in my wrist that is less of a problem
with pipers. It’s fine as a grip and has some
advantages, e.g. slides are easier and more
natural. There is something quite graceful
and relaxed about it, as mentioned above.
I’ve used pipers grip on and off for some time.
I continue to find classical grip somewhat
more agile. The ends of fingers fit
holes neatly, they’re more sensitive
and the curved finger can be used
with minimal movement–I think it’s
mechanically a bit quicker. But not much.
So far the blocks on keyed flutes are posing no
problem for me with piper’s grip. I just
lay my fingers on em and it’s comfortable
enough.
I can’t reach a standard Bb key, my thumb holding
up the flute, but I can half hole Bb easily anyhow
so I don’t care.
A decent maker of keyed flutes can accomodate piper’s grip no problem. It does make used shopping possibly more of a hassle though.
Carry on! I promise no harm will come to your prospects if you use an alternate grip. Just one question (here it comes, C&Fers)…
Are you really using the piper’s grip? There’s been a semi-gentleman’s agreement among the semi-gentlemen and -gentlewomen here on C&F that the term “piper’s grip” should only refer to the use of the second joints to cover the holes. I’ve been promulgating the use of the term “Irish grip” to refer to a straight-fingered left hand hold that still uses some part of the first joint of each finger to cover the holes.
Which are you using? Or is it some gradation inbetween? Best of luck,
Rob
p.s. Do a forum search on “irish grip” to access some thrilling debate on this topic!
It shouldn’t come as any surprise that the flute teachers in the days these flutes were used had firm views on how they should best be held and blown. It should also comes as no surprise that they didn’t always agree. What might come as a surprise is that some of this info is available on line:
http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Nicholson_on_Tone.htm
http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Rocksto_on_holding_the_flute.html
http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Rocksto_on_tone.html
Pipers grip does make for some problems in moving on to keyed flute, particularly for the Bb key. The left thumb is pretty well written off if pipers grip is employed in the left hand. R1 Bb is still available, but if the C and therefore the R1 Bb keys have to moved further around teh flute to accommodate LH pipers grip, it puts the slot of the R1 Bb very low on the flute. If RH pipers grip is also then used, the RH is horizontal, meaning R1 has to dip pretty low to push the horizontal Bb lever inwards.
I’d be interested to hear if anyone has experienced any other successful approach to Bb for pipers grip.
I started using the standard modern Boehm flute hold (having taken a few Boehm lessons in my distant youth), but have more recently switched to the 19th century approach expounded by Rockstro in the link above. I agree with him (a rare co-incidence) that it offers the best in accessibility to holes and keys. (And if an old man like me can change after 30 years of playing, it must give hope to the young!).
The flute will slip out of your grasp a few times before you get it right though! It does make you raise your right wrist more than other grips, but gives you much greater freedom in the right hand fingers than the modern Boehm approach. Anyway, read up and give it a go.
Terry
Pipers grip does make for some problems in moving on to keyed flute, particularly for the Bb key. The left thumb is pretty well written off if pipers grip is employed in the left hand. R1 Bb is still available, but if the C and therefore the R1 Bb keys have to moved further around teh flute to accommodate LH pipers grip, it puts the slot of the R1 Bb very low on the flute. If RH pipers grip is also then used, the RH is horizontal, meaning R1 has to dip pretty low to push the horizontal Bb lever inwards.
…
My Seth Gallagher flute (still unsold) is set up for piper’s grip (no
surprise as the maker is a pipe maker);
it has the rt hand Bb touch. Yes R1 has to dip to push the horizontal
Bb lever inwards, however this is no difficulty. Works fine, IMO.
Another solution to Bb is simply to half-hole the note.
I find this quite easy, the easiest half-hole for me,
and often easier and more effective than using
a key.
Let’s not forget, too, that the fingering xox xxx will produce a fine Bb on most flutes, especially Rudall-types. You may have to lip it down a bit.
As tp Terry’s comments, I find the Bb keys on many historic flutes to be pretty low on the flute to begin with. My Rudall has the second touch for the Bb, but it’s at an angle to place the touch higher than it would have been had it been lined up with the tonehole. The main key is of course at the same angle. Imagine, all those years ago someone was looking out for me! Thanks, lads. Cheers,
Rob
Welcome to transverse flute playing.
The finger techniques appropriate for playing those pipes which are held straight out before the player are, frankly, not so appropriate for playing the transverse flute, long story short.
Does that make sense?
I am looking forward to your return.
Welcome to transverse flute playing.
I tried the piper’s grip when I started (coming from hi & low whistles), and I found that it inhibited my flute playing. I am sure I would be hurting in my hands or neck or arms now. It was a pain to learn another grip. But I am glad I did. I know others manage with the piper’s grip, but I couldn’t.
One of my teachers uses pipers grip as, you describe it I think-- if I thought I could play like him by switching my grip, I’d do it in a heartbeat.
Without (hopefully) engaging in another protracted battle about whether or not straight-fingered technique works for transverse flute, allow me to include here a link to what I’d like to think of as my little velvet-gloved death blow to the argument that unorthodox flute technique produces physical problems and sloppy results:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76aKx23qd58
Whatever might be said about the music, I’d say the aul’ hands look pretty comfy. Felt good while I was doing it! Cheers,
Rob
Good guitarists who play more than one type of guitar have no problem adjusting their approach to the instrument at hand.
Its not like, if you’re playing a cylindrical bored unkeyed low C flute which requires a pipers’ grip (and var. thereof) that if you are faced with a keyed flute you cannot adjust your approach. Grips shouldn’t be set in concrete but as relaxed as possible.
As a beginner one needs to go as deeply and as relaxedly with any type of recommended grip that suits your current comfort zone. You may become a multi grip type player later but first get expert with one. Change overs are easier once you know one thing deeply and the understanding that comes with it.
I know what I am talking about. I have been a beginner for over 35 years.
(I concur with MR Kerr).
Hi
Wow thanks for all the great advise. I just find the classic flute grip very awkward and making ornamentation difficult. if I found through the advise given that I should avoid the pipers grip because of future problems , then i would really try to change it. Also would pin mounted key´s favor the pipers grip ie , without the block mounts getting in the way. I am relieved to hear that the grip I naturally use is not so off the mark.
Thanks
Thomas
Hi Rob.
Lovely playing . Your grip looks close to what Im using . I see Mike Mcgoldrick uses a pipers type grip aswell , so Im getting happier by the minuet .
Thomas
Tal is absolutely correct. I wish all those who say one is right and the other wrong would read his post again and then look at Rob’s clip.
It’s not like, if you’re playing a cylindrical bored unkeyed low C flute which requires a pipers’ grip (and var. thereof) that if you are faced with a keyed flute you cannot adjust your approach. Grips shouldn’t be set in concrete but as relaxed as possible.
As a beginner one needs to go as deeply and as relaxedly with any type of recommended grip that suits your current comfort zone. You may become a multi grip type player later but first get expert with one. Change overs are easier once you know one thing deeply and the understanding that comes with it.
And Rob, lovely playing. But if you keep tapping your foot like that you’ll develop an encinomial bifarcation resulting in a strained tibialis inferiorus. Didn’t anybody ever tell you that’s the wrong way to tap your foot? It’s a pity that the more knowledgeable posters here haven’t called that to your attention.
I know, I know. I feel really let down on that score. I’ve also got a fridge full of eggs; maybe someone would be so kind as to remind me how to suck them.
Happy Holidays, hope the wind has died down a bit over there. All the best,
Rob
Cocus, I think you should henceforth change your handle to “Ironywood” 
. Suits you, sir!
Since Rob’s vid, we do seem to have something of an outbreak of at least convergence, if not coincidence of opinion! Well done Rob! And I agree with Cocus that Talasiga’s post here is spot on. I think the corollary of that, though, is that it is wise to experiment - and Terry’s advice should be weighty. Personally I agree with Jim that I have better LH flexibility and control with “Rockstro”, but as I have only experimented with Rob’s hold and don’t like true pipers’ on either flute or whistle, I’m not practiced enough at them for fair comparison.
Welcome Ballygo!