New Forum Request - is dead. I have dropped it.

Whistle
1

Although I still believe that a wind instrument tech forum is a worthy thing, this request of mine has engendered so much bad feeling from a few very vocal people and their sycophants, that I am herewith withdrawing it. It is the last notice you will get from me.

I’m an enthusiastic person. When I get an idea I believe in, I back it to the hilt, and try my very best to politely convince others that it’s a Good Idea. I believed, and still do, that the forum I requested would help the entire community. Had I not so believed, I would never have suggested it.

People who think that I have commercial intent, think again. I am already backlogged beyond any desire to wish for more orders. Aside from which, I doubt many putative customers would be reading such a forum.

I attempted to put the thing to a vote, and was met with such incredible, not to mention, incomprehensible, venom, that I have decided to simply drop the issue. I do not wish to be associated with people who are so totally without a sense of propriety and reason, that they would attack one from the very first day, and continue to do so, even in the face of conciliatory attempts on my part, even though I feel that I am in no way at fault.

This was, for me, a way out of being attacked by these individuals, while still being able to talk about musical instrument construction. I sorrow that it didn’t work, but hey, I’m resilient.

You know who you are. Forget it. I don’t go away. And from now on, I will assiduously ignore you. You are not noticed. Your presence has been forgotten.

Let’s get on with the Whistle Tech Talk… threads on the Poststructural board. It appears to be all we’ve got, so let’s get after it! :slight_smile:
Cheers,
Bill Whedon

I have just emailed Dale requesting a new forum be created for those of us who make whistles - I did not specify “for profit”, and hope that anyone who makes or wishes to make, whistles, would feel welcome in such a forum.

Whether or not you agree, let me say that I also indicated that the same rules about advertising should apply there as they do here, save the optional identification of onesself as a whistlemaker in the .signature.

Poststructural is rife with OT posts, and people getting all chiffy when some of us try to talk about the trade. I don’t like having to constantly defend myself for talking about whistlemaking, so I made the proposal. If you like it, or if you don’t like it and have a logical reason, please say so here. Note up front that I don’t consider the existence of other whistle fora as a “good reason” to not carry on tech conversations here on the biggest board.

Thanks for your participation,
Bill Whedon

[ This Message was edited by: serpent on 2002-10-27 22:55 ]

2

Further splintering of the board? Well just don’t do like other splinters (which shall remain nameless) and have a bunch of know-it-all types telling everyone new who ventures onto what they perceive as their territory that they are off topic.

3

On 2002-10-17 20:24, Walden wrote:
Further splintering of the board? Well just don’t do like other splinters (which shall remain nameless) and have a bunch of know-it-all types telling everyone new who ventures onto what they perceive as their territory that they are off topic.

I don’t know that I’d call it “splintering”. My purpose isn’t to exclude anyone, but to provide a specific focus for people who are or would like to be engaged in the (art? craft? both?) of whistlesmithing, and who don’t want to have to wade through the umpty-odd pages of posts just because somebody didn’t post every five minutes to keep the thread up top.

Additionally, if you’ve been watching some of the later threads, you’ve seen me (mostly successfully) holding my temper because somebody is, yet again, taking things out of context and accusing me of using the board to promote my business. I can be tolerant of that particular brand of petty foolishness for quite a while, but I do have limits to my tolerance to being pummelled for no apparent reason, given that the actual (not self-appointed) gods of the board don’t seem to find fault with my posts.

I guess that what I’m saying is, I want to talk whistlesmithing with like-minded people, but every time I do so, someone decides to take issue with the way I use my words. I’m tired of getting slapped around by the neighborhood bullies (and in one case, threatened with physical harm), and have no desire to become one such, myself, so I’d rather find a peaceful alternative - moving to a different venue for these discussions, is my choice. I don’t wish to leave C&F, hence the suggested new forum.

Well, that’s my long-winded explanation, and I hope it sheds light on the wherefore and the why of my desire for a new forum. (shrug)
Cheers,
Bill Whedon

4

-Great idea!

5

Spend some time on the Mandolin Cafe message board. It is split into many areas, just as you are suggesting. I was a regular on it, when I was in the market for a mandolin. But I am still on C & F, even though I’m not in the market for a new whistle.

C & F is kind of like CarTalk, on Saturday morning, Public Radio stations. They don’t always talk about cars, which makes it more entertaining, just as C & F doesn’t always talk about whistles.

6

Hey, y’all, try to think of it as a quiet room off the party, where you can sit and “talk shop” for a while, without the distractions. The party still goes on, and you can re-join it any time.

Better?
Cheers
Bill Whedon

7

On 2002-10-17 20:24, Walden wrote:
Further splintering of the board? Well just don’t do like other splinters (which shall remain nameless) and have a bunch of know-it-all types telling everyone new who ventures onto what they perceive as their territory that they are off topic.

What I take this to mean, Bill, is that if you succeed in starting another forum for the express purpose of focusing discussion on a restricted set of topics, you should not expect others (Walden, for example - I don’t mind naming names) to refrain from weighing in with inconsequential trivia (and apparently being petulantly offended when they are reminded of the purpose of the new forum).

I had thought that a specific forum on Irish traditional music would have been of considerable usefulness to many, but the fact is that it now seems to be moribund, for whatever reason - lack of a broad base of interest, a perceived know-it-all attitude on the part of me and others…

Bear our experience in mind before you invest too much in trying to get your new forum off the ground. Perhaps C&F is best dealt with in the same way as life in general - it is what it is, and not what you would like it to be. Better get used to it.

8

On 2002-10-18 08:39, StevieJ wrote:
Walden, for example - I don’t mind naming names

I wasn’t one of the ones they did that to, it was others—several others.

9

On 2002-10-18 09:36, Walden wrote:

On 2002-10-18 08:39, StevieJ wrote:
Walden, for example - I don’t mind naming names

I wasn’t one of the ones they did that to, it was others—several others.

If you look at the posts on ITM, you’ll see that the majority of requests to remain on topic were posted by me - respectfully. So, if you have issue with me, then stand up and say so and dispense with the inuendo, Walden. If “others” are offended by my actions let them speak directly to me; seems to me this doesn’t have much to do with you.

Teri

10

Steve, Teri, Walden, et al (whoever al is) :slight_smile: quit arguing on my thread!! If you’re a know-it-all, that’s fine. If you’re a scolder of OT-posting people, that’s cool too. Here’s the premise:

  1. There are several whistlemakers who like to “talk shop”.
  2. There are several people who would like to make whistles.
  3. There are some people who want to make whistles to sell, but don’t know how it’ll go.
  4. There are people who know special things about whistlemaking that they’re willing to share.
  5. My “Whistle Making” (proposed) forum, would cover the gamut, probably and then some.

If it flies, it flies, but we won’t know unless we give it a try.

If it crashes, then, being it’s “Daddy”, I would have no objection to Dale taking it down.

Again:
We Won’t Know Unless We Give It A Try…

Thank you for your support, or lack thereof.

This message has been brought to you by the Association for Making Specious Comments about Whistle-Playing Orangutans. Copyright © 2002, all rights reserved.

Cheers,
Bill Whedon

11

Bill

I apologize for stepping on your thread.

Your idea is a good one and a natural evolution.

When this all started a few years ago, there were a few dozen people posting. One forum made sense, and was all that was needed. Over the past 3-4 years the membership has grown to, what - 1500+ people? I liken that, as you, to a room. In the beginning, one big, main room accomodated the few people. But, now we have over a thousand people in that room. Granted, not all post, but considering the percentage, that many people talking all at once equals a din. It’s logical that pockets of conversation start, satellite groups form, and people gather in areas relevant to the discussion. It isn’t splintering, or exclusiveness, it’s just normal evolution of conversation. C&F is the main party room, with side areas which are more quiet and focused. I don’t understand why people find that objectionable. It’s just a matter of wandering in and out of the different rooms depending on what’s being discussed. I find that so much more enriching and diverse.

Good luck to you.
Teri

12

For what it’s worth, I think a whistlemakers (and maybe also flutemakers?) forum is a great idea. Information about how one goes about making a whistle is of interest to a lot of people, not only those who make them regularly or might want to try, but also to those who might want to know more about the instruments they play.

I routinely browse multiple forums on this board, depending on what my interest is at a given moment, and I know many others do too, so I don’t think it would have a splintering effect. It would just provide, as others have said, a focus for discussion and an easy way to find information relevant to what you’re interested in.

That’s my vote!
Steven

13

Serpent,

I am not opposed to adding a whistlesmithery forum. Then again, I never felt your whistlesmithing posts were uncalled for in the first place. Seems to me that is one of the great things about the C&F Whistle Board, it brings together players and makers, allowing an amount of interaction otherwise unattainable. I certainly appreciate the insights into the craft, as well as gaining a greater respect for what makers go through in presenting their wares to the public.

14

–quote–
For what it’s worth, I think a whistlemakers (and maybe also flutemakers?) forum is a great idea. Information about how one goes about making a whistle is of interest to a lot of people, not only those who make them regularly or might want to try, but also to those who might want to know more about the instruments they play.
–endquote–

I also would like to lend my voice to the support of a “maker’s” forum.

I think you would find the appeal to be wider than it might first appear: want to know who knows more than almost anybody about tweaking cheap whistles? Those who make expensive ones.

By the way, I for one do think the reception Bill has recieved has been shamefully cold, and I’m glad he’s sticking it out and adding his voice to the community in spite of some very out-of-line things that have been said to him.

Best,

–James
http://www.flutesite.com

15

Maybe instead of just Whistle making you might want to call it an engineering forum. You could discuss how to make whistles, flutes and related instruments. It could also include the issues around the physics involved in whistles, how the tone is produced. How to do tweeks.

I think defining and spelling out the scope of the forum will help get it started on the right foot and improve it’s chances of success. It might also give everyone a chance to figure out if we want to keep these discussion part of the main forum by making some accomodations to promote these topics.

16

On 2002-10-18 10:55, Teri-K wrote:
Bill

I apologize for stepping on your thread.

Your idea is a good one and a natural evolution.

When this all started a few years ago, there were a few dozen people posting. One forum made sense, and was all that was needed. Over the past 3-4 years the membership has grown to, what - 1500+ people? I liken that, as you, to a room. In the beginning, one big, main room accomodated the few people. But, now we have over a thousand people in that room. Granted, not all post, but considering the percentage, that many people talking all at once equals a din. It’s logical that pockets of conversation start, satellite groups form, and people gather in areas relevant to the discussion. It isn’t splintering, or exclusiveness, it’s just normal evolution of conversation. C&F is the main party room, with side areas which are more quiet and focused. I don’t understand why people find that objectionable. It’s just a matter of wandering in and out of the different rooms depending on what’s being discussed. I find that so much more enriching and diverse.

Good luck to you.
Teri

First of all, I was being facetious about the argument. No apologies needed - I know this place gets hot under the collar from time to time! :slight_smile:

To the others who have come out in support, I say, “Thank You!!”, and yes, I think a “Whistle and Flute Engineering” forum would make me very happy, indeed! What a good idea! :smiley: The comment about the “tweaks” is especially relevant, in light of so much attention being given to that on the PostStructural board, esp. as it’s not all that easy to wade through the umpty-thousand posts and find! That’s the kind of information I’d look for in such a forum. Also, pointers to all the calcs and calculators for whistles and flutes, some exceptions to rules, how to figger things out about belled whistles, tapered ones, and parallel-tube; thickness and variety of body material; same for fipple material.

For example, I’m working on making a solid brass fipple. Turning 5/8" brass stock down to 0.560" on a lathe, then milling one surface flat, and inserting and silver-soldering in place. Is that a cool idea? I don’t know, but somebody’s very probably tried it and can tell me whether / how well, it will or will not work. On PostStructural, such posts and their replies would likely get lost very quickly, as they would probably come in between the myriad others about whistling, songs, speed, OT’s, sheet music, etc…

Okay, I know I’ve beaten this particular horse just about to death, and I’ll try to cut back on the salesmanship side for a while. But I do hope I’ll hear from Dale or Rich sometime soon!

Thanks, everyone, pro and con alike, for your on-going participation!
Cheers,
Bill Whedon

17

Bill - I too think it’s a fine idea, assuming you get enough others to make a go of it. I, for one , consider posts by makers, as well as others of course, of great interest at times. If your forum is listed among the group already available, we would all still have the opportunity to at least read the maker interplay (that somehow sounds awful…)as we wish.

I hope you guys will continue to also post here on other related topics as well. Moreover, non-makers or those not aspiring to be makers, would probably refrain from posting on your forum due to lack of technical expertise and “standing” in that sub - community.

IMHO, the makers on this Board, with the clear exception of one or two, have been just fine with respect to not just using the Board for rank commercialism. In fact, lately, I’ve found some posts by non-makers verging into the category of commercialism and price gouging, for example.

All in all, this is still holding up as a solid, interesting, tolerant, albeit well and reasonably administered Board, that is merely experiencing growing pains and some shifting in member base and those who post the most.

I wish you good luck.

Regards,

Philo

18

On 2002-10-18 14:08, PhilO wrote:

In fact, lately, I’ve found some posts by non-makers verging into the category of commercialism and price gouging, for example.

Hmm, I smell essence of Tube Dude somewhere in that statement…

Loren

19

Hi Bill,

Traditionally, I have argued against splintering the board.

(… long - very long - diatribe deleted…)

All this to say, we should really consider this before breaking down the topics even further (as if loving the whistle isn’t a nitch topic already). I don’t know that it’s a bad idea, I’m just not sure that it is a good one.

Erik

[ This Message was edited by: ErikT on 2002-10-18 18:23 ]

20

Erik,
Well I think the thing is, that instrument making and the other aspects (I support the idea that it should include tweaking instruments and other instruments besides whistles) is not necessarily of interest to some on the main forum. Some people just like to play.

Personally I understand the idea of not messing with a great group; that being said, I think making instruments is a topic that is distinct and interesting in its own right and deserves to be given an equal footing with whistles, flutes and pipes :slight_smile: