My DIY LTW attempt

Whistle
1

Howdy Folks,

This is my first post here, though I’ve been enjoying lurking the past little while. By way of introduction, I’m a veteran novice whistler - been noodling on it for over 20 years, on and off (mostly off), but never played in sessions or even learned more than a handful of trad tunes. I did take a class once with the late great Tony Cuffe, just to get some grounding in basic technique, but I never had much call to develop it. So my enjoyment of whistle playing has been very much personal, and intermittent.

Since I’m not taking the playing seriously, I go for cheap satisfaction. Until recently, I’ve only ever owned Gens, Feadogs, and a Clarke, most bought in the 80’s and most gone now (I do still have my first Feadog, and a Sodlum’s C). I always wanted to try a low whistle but at the time I only knew of the higher end whistles and so let it be. Just a month or so ago I got back into whistling and found all these wonderful, affordable whistles. Even better, I found Guido’s plans for making your own.

Now, when people say things like “anyone can do it”, they generally don’t have me in mind. I don’t know a torque wrench from a tandoor and can’t draw a straight line to save my life. I don’t know why I thought I could pull it off, but I decided what the hey, and got some 3/4" cpvc pipe and a length of oak dowel. And a saw, 'cause I didn’t have one of those.

I decided to make an alto A whistle, for no other reason than it’s a key I don’t have and have no plans to get. A couple hours later I had . . . a whistle that was ugly as sin but didn’t sound half bad. If I felt I had the talent and patience to sand, carve and refine this thing into a lovely looking whistle, I would, but recognizing my limits, I decided instead to maximize the ugly, as you can see.

As for the sound, it took some finagling and a second fipple block, but I got it to sound pretty ok for my taste But there is one glaring problem: when I hit the upper octave B and C notes (F# and G# on the A), it doesn’t go there, but goes a semitone or so higher. I tried resizing the window every which way (widened it, moved the block up and down), sharpening and dulling the blade, but no luck. I can only guess it’s an imperfect fipple block or window cut, unless I could’ve done something wrong with the holes. Anyone have any ideas?

There were a couple of things in Guido’s instructions that threw me off. He recommends making the mouthpiece between 20-30 mm (depending on preference), but for a 30 mm piece he calls for a 30 mm cut for the windway. If you leave 5 mm for the window, that leaves 25 mm to be covered by the cap. If you make a 30 mm cap & fipple block, they’ll be sticking out 5 mm from the end of the body. I assume this results in less than optimal air flow. So if you really have some choice in the length of the mouthpiece, can you then make a smaller or larger cut for the windway? Would that affect the pitch (and thus the dimensions for the whole thing)?

Also, when using a wider bore pipe (for alto & low whistles), cutting anything less than 30 mm at a 45 degree angle comes dangerously close to nipping off the entire bottom edge. I made a 25 mm windway cap and I think it doesn’t sit as tight as it could because it doesn’t have enough mass on the bottom to pull down on the top part.

Finally, here are some tips I picked up along the way, that may help anyone else as inept as I am who wants to try making the LTW:

  1. I don’t have any kind of a workspace setup (bench, vice, most tools), so I found a miter box and a clamp were a huge help, especially for making those 45 degree angle cuts. And being able to make an accurate 45 degree angle cut meant I could cut a pre-angled body and then already have the angle for the cap.

  2. Maybe it was the little hacksaw I used, but cutting the cpvc pipe created LOTS of dust, and it smells nasty - and the thought of breathing that stuff made me run out and get a particle mask. I definitely recommend gloves and protective eyewear too, as my thumb, middle finger and right eye will attest.

  3. As a substitute for sawing and sanding, I sometimes used either a large box cutter or a small hobby knife to cut the pvc. It takes a little bit longer, but the box cutter will eventually cut through the pipe without leaving a mess. The exacto-knife worked pretty well in shaping the lip and the fipple block. In both cases only minimal sanding was then needed.

  4. Don’t buy oak dowels! They are impervious to sandpaper, or at least they seem that way. I’m going to get pine for the next one. I figured oak would be denser and work better as a plug, but if you use the wax treatment it shouldn’t matter what kind of wood you use, should it?

2

Yes - there’s a reason that oak is called a hardwood. Seriously, though, I’ve had good luck casting blocks from either 2 part epoxy or Alumilite (2 part polyurethane, I think). You can get either at HobbyLobby. I use scrap, short pieces of CPVC pipe (same size as intended whistle) as molds to cast rods which can easily be cut & sanded as needed. The only downside that I’ve found is that these materials do not shed water as well as Delrin (more tendency for clogging).

Also - watch out for CPVC dust - it’s definitely not good for you. Wet sanding can help reduce this problem.
Have fun DIY-ing your CPVC whistles.

3

Hello Seonachan, welcome to Chiff & Fipple, the exciting world of whistles, and DIY LTW.
Keep checking in, Guido may come along, and give some pointers. Or you could contact him from his web site.
:thumbsup:

4

Nice job, Seonachan! Welcome to the world of whistle making. Betcha can’t make just one.

I have also gone the cast plug route on many whistles. I’ve used both Sculpey and Fimo which are PVC modeling clays. They are baked to harden. Like henryz, I use a spare piece of pipe as the mold. I have also had very good results with cast polyester resin too, likewise using a piece of pipe as the mold. Take caution when you use any of these plastics. They do give off chlorine gas when heated and such. Work in a well ventilated space.

Feadoggie

5

Jesus Christ, i’ve never thought about it before… :boggle:
I could mould my own fipple plugs!!! :open_mouth: :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

Sorry for the excitement, but you just made my life 200% easier. So far, i have had to do whatever i could to obtain that blasted piece of wood.
I destroyed mu grandma’s cooking utensils as well as the broomstick.
Goddamn, and i hoped to stop making whistles!!!

Now, should i use epoxy resin for this? (something tells me i shouldn’t)
If not epoxy then could i use thermosetting plastic compund?
Will it shrink or expand during the boiling? And does it have some unwanted health effects when ingested in minute quantities?(during the playing)


Ontopic: Seonachan, well done, and welcome to our world. This is the way, step inside. :smiley:

As i can see from the picture, i’d say that your window is too high. The breathiness in higher octave often occurs when the bottom of the windway is too far from the blade (this however solidifies the bell note and prevents it from flipping to the higher octave).
So it’s a fine balance of the fipple plug position.
Also, the width of the window is a secondary parameter, because, for the set sweet spot of the plug it determines the quantity of the air that flows out. More width, more air requirement - more breathiness.
Other than that, the whistle looks decent enough. It wouldn’t hurt to hear some recordings you know… :smiley:

Oh and, you could blunt that top of the fipple cover just so you don’t lose a part of your inner upper lip if someone hits your mic. :wink:

6

Yep! When you don’t have a lathe to turn things round, you have to come up with another way to get the job done. Right? Do a search on the board for “cast” or “molded” plugs (or dare I say it, fipples) and you should get some decent explanations of what others have used. Here’s one where I outlined my procedure.

https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/polyester-resin-fipple/49857/1

What you use is up to you and what you have available in your area. I have not used epoxy resin but others have. Polyester resin is just less expensive here and more readily available. As for shrinkage, that will depend on the material you use too. With resins, at least those I have used, there is very little shrinkage, just make your mold a tiny bit longer than you need. When you cast with resins you coat the inside of the mold with a release agent so you can get the finished product out of the mold. A very thin coat will do but it does take up space. If you try the Fimo or Sculpey polyclays, they will shrink when baked but if you follow the directions provided by the manufacturers it will be minimal. The web has a lot of info on polyclays too. Here in the US you can buy the casting resin or polyclay at art & craft shops or hobby shops.

As for health effects, work safe! Know what you are working with. Read the manufacturers instructions carefully. Go to the web and inform yourself. As I said above, I work in a well ventilated area when casting resins.

Feadoggie

7

Thanks everyone for the welcomes and tips. I might look into the clay/resin option in the future, but for now I’ll see what I can do with some softer wood. Also, I got lucky and found a dowel at Lowe’s that fits right inside their 1/2" cvpc pipe, so I think I’ll try some high whistles next.

I’m still messing around with this one, though I’m afraid it may end up being an unplayable guinea pig as I test further whittling etc. Today I thinned down the area around the windway hoping that the cap would sit closer down. It helped a little but I may just need to do another cap with more tension on the bottom.

Anyway, here’s a short clip I recorded yesterday, before further experimenting:

http://www.houndbite.com/?houndbite=14580

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BTW, your bell note A is way sharp. Try sticking a glob of blue tack putty in the bell end to bring it down.

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Seanachan, I would say make your fipples longer. It does use up more tube. The reason is not that obvious. But as you carry your whistle around with you, you will find that a short windway cover comes adrift an awful lot more easily than a long one. After you’ve made your fourth or fifth replacement windway cover, you’ll resolve to give yourself a longer fipple next time.

Nice whistle, by the way! Your windway blade is a lot more obtuse than mine. I’ll try that on the next whistle I make!

10

I have made a few where the top 2 notes in the second octave would not speak. I have found that the blade was too high in the airstream. In general, the bottom of the blade should be between the floor of the airway and less than 50% into it. The higher it is in the airway, the more the higher octave will be favored and the less the lower octave. Also the whistle will be more chiffy. If it is at the same level as the floor of the airway, then the lower octave is favored and the whistle will be more flute-like. Also, it looks like the window between the airway and the fipple blade is a little longer then it should be. I have found that making it a ratio of about 5/7 is about right, where the “7” is the width. If the window is shorter, then the higher octave is favored and visa versa.

The above may not be very clear, so here are some numbers:

The airway is 1/8" (.125) high and 5/16" (.3125) wide.

The fipple window would be about 1/4" long. (5/7) * .3125 = .2232

These measurements assume that the floor of the airway is totally flat, compared to the roof. The roof is curved left and right but not front to back. That means that the airway is the height of the thickness of the tube you are using. The PVC pipe that I have is .113" thick. The plug you are using should be round with no flattening of the airway floor.

I would not worry about the blade in the airway and just make it the same as the floor of the airway. It should just work. If you want to tweak it, shave the underside of the blade, but no more than 1/16". You can also flatten the floor of the airway, but that is much (much) harder to get right.

You can use oak for the fipple stopper. But to work it, you will want a vise and a sharp course file. I use a bench grinder when I want to shape a bit of hardwood.

11

Curiosity got the better of me, so I measured the window width/length ratio on six different alto whistles I had made from 3/4" CPVC pipe. They all fell between 1.40 (Chuck’s 7/5 recommended ratio) and 1.60. That seems to work over a variety of keys, also.