Interesting old flute playing image

Received today an image from the Bursar of Kimbolton School, in Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire, England. It’s from a mural painted by c1708 by Giovanni Antonio Pellegrini. The Bursar was interested that the flute player was left handed, but, as I pointed out, so is the oboe player!

In those days, you could approach the flute or oboe from either hand. Even later, in the baroque, you could manage either way. It was only in the 19th century that options became sharply limited.

But what also interested me was the flute-player’s hold and stance. Flute head end supported on shoulder, top thumb up-hill from rest of hand, what we might today call piper’s grip!

Note also the ornamental turnings on head and foot of the flute. This appears to be Hotteterre’s flute. The dates would work.

I’m confused. The attached picture doesn’t seem to show the flute head end supported on the shoulder, the player being left handed, or the thumb “up-hill” from the rest of the hand.

Or are things reversed when sent from down under?

Best wishes.

Steve

I couldn’t really see past that impressive hair (undoubtedly a wig, but I’ve always been fascinated by the fact that men used to wear wigs of various designs–what the heck was that all about?). But I do think this is not the image Terry intended to upload.

The 1st photo (3 musicians not sure what the 4th guy is doing) does show that. The 2nd, larger photo, is a right-hander.

Hmmmm…first photo is not displayed when I look for it.

Maybe blocked by your browser? Image is from Google:

[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/1xu5fJXFsLfKrhfUVTM6H79k6woH0vwopyKdNz69BDXMRg7mc6SBZ7g_OjCdhLh91OPEZivRwMGctenaLjIqDsM_DW6QWtAdkV3bpQ56IDLhK7oEGLM[/img]

I see it fine. Here it is, as a link, which also works for me, may not for you:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/1xu5fJXFsLfKrhfUVTM6H79k6woH0vwopyKdNz69BDXMRg7mc6SBZ7g_OjCdhLh91OPEZivRwMGctenaLjIqDsM_DW6QWtAdkV3bpQ56IDLhK7oEGLM

Certainly something is blocking it! I tried on several different browsers and I followed your link, but none will display. C’est la vie! I still like the guy in the wig.

Weird, I get a Google error on that link: “Your client does not have permission to get URL… Forbidden That’s all we know.”

Censorship!

Likewise.

A standard argument is that it was about lice/other parasite control and status. Ordinary people wore their own hair and scratched.

I’m not 100% sure I by the lice/flea thing. I think it might be “insane fashion,” like having your pants falling down

Hmmmm…first photo is not displayed when I look for it.

Image is easily found online:







Thanks, Mr.Gumby.

I’m pretty sure the following Medieval pic’s been posted here before:

All else aside, one is left to wonder whether the positioning of the flutes pictured is an accurate depiction of trends of the period, or an indifferent artist’s license.

In the other painting (Baroque, I believe?), the artist has clearly drawn on having directly observed at least one flute player from life: The idiosyncratic method of resting the flute on the shoulder is too realistic to suggest otherwise, for it’s a topic that fluteplayers know and return to from time to time. The “up-hill” thumb mirrors my own grip, so that’s more verité. But as to the left-handedness? It could have been observed, but it’s also possible it was chosen here to better serve the visual composition. And then there’s that pesky oboe to cast even more doubts: What are the odds of two southpaws in one frame? An artist’s unconscious bias when confronted with the marginally known? I can’t even begin to address the believability of the oboist’s fingering technique; that’s way out of my realm.

They left out the speech bubble, the guy on the right is calling the next tune. I guess it is artist’s licence but most of us must have twisted out heads 90 degrees to talk to the person on our right.

(and it’s an early Zoom session)

Pints on the bench would anchor the scene better.

Whoops, sorry for the confusion. Maybe the image wasn’t available in some regions.

Overnight, the Bursar has kindly gone up and taken a closer photo of the flute player, and I’ve now cropped that to focus on the flute.

I’d think that supporting the head end on the shoulder could put a crick in one’s neck! Perhaps there is something that I, not being a flautist, am unaware of that would necessitate positioning one’s head in that manner? It’s a bit interesting to me. One advantage of taking up the flute, if I get a good teacher, would be lack of bad habits to un-learn…

Thanks Terry, that’s very interesting. Is this a kind a bass flute? The distance between the two hands and and the stretch seem very large. :astonished:

The question of did people play right or left handed is easily answered by examining baroque oboe footkeys. Even in this modern replica of one by Thomas Stanesby Senior, c 1700, the maker has kept both RH and LH options open. Note the double-headed touch on the central key and the duplication of the other key. Must feel a bit strange making the extra key these days, knowing it will probably never be played!

And of course when Hotteterre (or whoever it was) added the Eb key to the new conical baroque 1-key flute, the foot could be twisted either way to cater for LH or RH playing. It was only when the other keys were added that decisions had to be taken.

In the full image, the players look very young, perhaps children play-acting at playing? It would be nice to know more about the backstory to the mural.