In a recent post I was critical of some sound files put on Gaelic Crossings web site by James Peeples.
On reflection I wonder if I should have put myself up as a quality controller.
I did think and still do; that if a player wants to learn then he/she should listen to well played/phrased tunes…but is this strictly true? Does it really matter? Anyone learning whistle or flute will have heard professional players so will know deep down what a tune can sound like.
I made my comments because I thought those sound files wouldn’t be beneficial to new players.
So a question; these tunes played at three different speeds and with all their quirks. Are they helpful? If they are, what comments would anyone have on why and how?
I will lastly apologize to James if I pee’d him off… good on you for your time and effort.
I must first make it clear that never in my life I have heard James play so I am makign some general comments here [allthough some off-line comments on the ‘tutorial’ have reached me recently].
Let’s say that if you want to learn off a recording, make sure the player you are learning off is indeed an accomplished traditional player who has a good grasp of both the music and the instrument. If you don’t [and I think this applies also for the discussion about quality of the music on the Clips page] you may well end up in a situation where the blind are leading the blind.
We have tried to facilitate this way of learning by posting a load of recordings by different wellknown flute and whislte players on Steve’s website and to aid the leaarning process added transcriptions and comments. Not to adverstise this but I really think if you don’t have direct access to a good traditional player, this is the way to go.
I did see Aodhan’s announcement for the site and honestly, I have a load of misgivings about introducing ‘session speed’. There is a multitude of different sessions where musicians come together and play music, there is no rule that says music should be played at a hyped speed. In fact I think the speed at which should be played at a session is perceived quite differently ‘overthere’ compared to ‘overhere’. I have met several boardmembers who sat in with a session I didn’t think of as particularly slow, who couldn’t play along because they could only play only play at breakneck speed and found themselves completely lost in a session that actually paid attention to melody and phrasing. So you’re best off sorting those out first, you can always pick up speed later if you are so inclined.
[edited in some clarification and edited out some typos]
I’ll type this very quickly and then take cover in my bunker…
I agree with Peter [above] but would add that some of the “less good” recordings out there on the net are quite encouraging once you’ve been playing for a while…
“Hey, I’m not so terrible”, you think to yourself, and feel that wee bit more empowered to play in front of others.
[Haven’t heard the recordings mentioned, by the way…and I have never posted any of my own playing]
[…when coming back from shopping trips to the city, my missus will often tell me about the poor standard of buskers compared to her beloved …
… well, maybe it’s just a way of sweetening me before she says how much she spent…]
Let me add a word here, because I think my remarks on the Gaelic Crossing tutorial may have something to do with the fact that James is taking a breather from c&f right now.
First off, respect for Jim for putting himself out there in the lime light. That takes some courage.
I feel that John (Aodhan) could have gone about this more carefully, and it makes me wonder if one doesn’t need to be a bit of an accomplished player before even organizing something like a tutorial.
What I mean in particular is the structure of the tutorial. LE McCollough’s Favorite Session tunes use a slow/little ornamentation and faster/ornamentation approach to teach each tune. But even the faster tunes are at a very moderate speed. There is a reason for that: A tutorial is there to teach beginners. If I and those with whom I talk about the challenges of learning ITM are any indication, then steady rhythm, good phrasing, and clean ornamentation are the most difficult things to accomplish: all of these can only be learned at slow speeds. Once they are in place, picking up the speed is no longer that difficult (or interesting). Every beginner (and intermediate player) I have spoken to or listened to is constantly battling the temptation to play at a speed that works against his or her ability to keep it steady and to keep it clean.
The upshot is that a tutorial with session-speed tunes doesn’t make sense to me. Either you still need a tutorial (then you should not even attempt session speed) or you can play at session speed (then you don’t need a tutorial anymore and will pick up your tunes from master players or good recordings).
The other thing that I think Aodhan should have considered is the kind of scrutiny a tutorial is going to get. It is entirely different from just putting up a tune on clips & snips to show others what you are working on and what progress you’ve made. I think those who care about the music will feel a responsibility for those who do not (yet) have the ability to distinguish good from bad and who need to be warned about learning from the tutorial. That makes it rough on Jim, who recorded the tunes as a favor for Aodhan, and all of a sudden finds himself thrust into the role of holding himself out as a player who is accomplished enough to teach the Music.
The most important thing, I think, is that we acknowledge that we are all in it for the Music, that we care deeply about it, and that we can discuss these issues while respecting and appreciating each other.
Well, I have talked this over with James, and his tunes are going to go off of the tutorial. I agree with your second point, I didn’t realize how much people would look at the tutorial. I disagree with your first point, however, but that’s something we can discuss privately, if you want.
I am working with my flute/whistle teacher (Link is above) to record 20 tunes at 3 speeds suitable for beginners on both flute and whistle. This had been my intention for the tutorial all along, James’ offer was gravy, so to speak. In retrospect, I probably should have had them reviewed by John G. first, but we all make mistakes.
I will also probably change the terminology a bit. I’m still ruminating on that, since there are a lot of sessions that do play songs at a faster tempo than the written score. However, “session speed” may sound a bit daunting, so that may change.
And, with all things, not everything is right the first time out of the box. You fix, adjust and move on.
I think that yes, Dave, you should. James’ (and perhaps Aodhan’s) feelings may have been hurt, but a reality check is always beneficial in the long run.
James has improved quite a bit over the time he’s been posting clips. and there’s every reason to believe he’ll continue to do so. Anyway, he said himself something that I had begun to suspect - there’s no stopping him!
