Embouchure suggestions on fife / piccolo

Irish Flute
1

Looking for your experience or suggestions on this one.

I decided, having achieved mediocrity on the Irish Whistle, that I would like to play the Irish Flute. However, for reasons including the price of a flute, and my concern that my fingers would never be able to cover the holes, I decided to start with a fife in D. I bought a very nice fife from Angus Fife and have been working at it for several months.

So here is the progress: I can play it nicely in two octaves for about 15-20 minutes before my embouchure gives out, and then my lips feel like I just came back from the dentist where he gave me an extra shot of Novacaine and I can’t pronounce consonants life F, P, B or V for a while.

So here is my question: should one be much further along after a few months, or does it really take this long to develop the embouchure on a fife? Should I give up and accept that a kazoo would be more appropriate to my musical (in)ability? And lastly, if I decided to do-over and buy an Irish Flute, would I find the embouchure any easier, or would I find myself owning yet another instrument that I cannot satisfactorily play for more than a few minutes?

The wisdom of the collective would be most appreciated, and I will not take offense even if the group consensus is that I should take up a different hobby altogether, like knitting or making coffee tables out of wagon wheels.

Regards,
Average Whistler, and hopefully someday Average Fifer.

2

Getting used to a cross blown instrument does indeed take time, you have to develop your lip muscles, & everyone is different.

There won’t be too much difference between a piccolo/fife & a low flute regarding embouchure, but it will need a slight adjustment when you switch.

Keep up the good work, not everybody can even get a decent sound on a cross blown. :thumbsup:

3

Yes, it takes a while for muscles to develop, and to achieve fine muscle control. You haven’t mentioned hyperventilating, and a few other initial sufferings.

I’ve never played piccolo or fife but I know that playing in the 2nd and especially 3rd registers of flute was much harder than the low register. 3rd register is now fairly easy for me but it was pretty impossible for the first couple of years.

So, I suggest that a flute would be an easier step. Some have easier embouchures in terms of playing than others.

4

A fife/piccolo player’s embouchure is shown in near photographic detail in a painting from the mid 1800s. The same artist illustrated the instrument in playing position together with bellows-blown bagpipes and a fiddle. This ensemble also appeared in an earlier painting accompanying Irish traditional dance, suggesting that the fife had a more prominent role in that context than is generally believed. Details about this, with a discussion of a significant difference between the bagpipes in the respective portrayals, are provided in a blog post here.

5

I think you definitely should try and get your hands on a flute - any kind of flute - and give it a try, Average Whistler. A fife in D will demand a very tight embouchure. Piccolo players often joke that a big advantage of playing the piccolo is that it then makes playing the flute much easier! Can you find a flute somewhere to try out?

6

I’ve known good fife players who would have been absolutely delighted with 20 minutes of decent embouchure after only a few months practice.

Keep at it and keep playing regularly and extra stamina will come - I’ve been playing fife for 30+ years and still need to keep on top of my embouchure, a few days off and I really start to notice the difference.

As others have said the flute embouchure is looser, but maybe consider not trying to keep too many juggling balls in the air at the same time - you’ll take a while to be able to automatically switch between flute and fife, so if you want to keep the fife going in its own right you may find that suffers as you get used to flute.

7

Thank you, everyone, for your thoughts and advice! It has been a year since my original post, here is a summary of my journey. I decided to buy a flute. My embouchure with the fife had developed to the point where I could crush walnut shells with my lips, which was a good party trick but didn’t do much for my playing.

Someone once wrote that when starting off on the Irish flute, buy the best one you can afford and learn on that flute. I read that only after I had bought a Dixon student flute. Being a thin-walled flute, the holes are quite far apart and quite large. I suspect Liszt and most professional basketball players would have little difficulty with the span, but I am neither and had trouble playing the instrument. My right hand did stretch with practice, to the point where I needed to buy my winter gloves in two sizes, one for left and a size larger for right. However I couldn’t increase the pad size of my fingers at the tip or first knuckle (for piper style), and couldn’t form a reliable seal when playing at a normal tempo. Hence I wasted another three months on this instrument.

Over the summer I picked up a wood flute by a local maker from a local player… which is a polite way of saying I don’t know who made it but the price was affordable. The fact is I live in Toronto, Canada, and there are no local makers and no local stores who carry Irish flutes, and the only way to acquire one is online or direct sale. I would love to go to a department store that specializes in Irish flutes to try some out and find the perfect flute; please pass along the address if you know of one. Maybe this is why so many people play guitar.

It is a nice flute with a nice tone, and the holes are closer together and I can play it without physical discomfort. I am developing my embouchure; it is breathy and I suspect not all of it is me… as I learn more about the Irish Flute and the model(s) I would have bought had time travel been more readily available, I see that the embouchure could have been cut better. Efforts to find an in-person Irish flute teacher to test it (or me) have been fruitless… maybe I need to move, although I would miss my wife and children.

My wife, faced with the two options I presented her (moving somewhere to find a proper flute and proper teacher, or buying a professional wooden flute online despite its cost and my apparent lack of aptitude) chose the latter. So I am in the market for something sub $1,000 that is not uncomfortable to play and that hopefully has a proper embouchure. In that way, using the scientific method, we will be able to prove that I am a poor musician (albeit with a nice flute).

Regards,
AW

BTW, I still like playing the whistle.

8

You might consider a Copley. He has two Delrin models on his available now page at very comfortable price point. He makes good flutes, Delrin is almost indestructible, won’t crack, easy maintenance. With one of these, you can learn to play and meanwhile shop around for your ultimate instrument. Then you’ll be able to sell, should you want to, the Copley for probably close to what you paid.

Note: I am in no way connected with Mr. Copley, but I do own one of his Delrin flutes and find it easy to play, in tune, etc.

There’s also a Delrin Baubet listed on the Used Instrument Page here. I’ve also played a Baubet flute and found it very playable. Again, you can play one of these well into your intermediate/advanced intermediate stage while you wait for the “perfect for you” instrument to materialize.

Best wishes.

Steve

9

I enjoyed reading that update :stuck_out_tongue:. You have many many great options in the S1000K range, both used and fresh from a maker. If you’re still wanting to give yourself time to see if the flute is for you, the Copley option mention is a great one. Last year I finally picked up one of the Copley delrin flutes (in F), and it’s a really nice little flute. You can’t beat the price, but there are a few other makers with delrin flutes in the same general price range. Up in Canada there are a couple options, one a bit higher than your price range, Windward, and one who is new to the market, Brophy. I have a Windward (in C), and it’s also an excellent flute, but they are spendy. Brophy is just above your price range, and I haven’t played them myself, but she apprenticed with Hammy Hamilton. If importing flutes isn’t a huge deal, there are other options over in Europe in your price range.

10

As far as good and inexpensive flutes go, Baubet would indeed be a very good option, and well below your budget of $1000.

11

Not necessarily … https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/chris-langan-weekend-toronto-march-3-5-2023/105552/1 → https://chrislangan.ca/weekend-schedule/

If nothing else, it sounds like a great place to meet like-minded people.

12

Thank you very much! I didn’t know about this event.

I see you are located in SW Ontario, if you know of any other similar events or sessions, please let me know. I think I don’t know where to look :slight_smile:

Regards,
AW

13

Update on this thread, and thank you for the excellent advice and suggestions.

I bought a Copley Delrin flute and have played it for a couple weeks. I noticed an immediate improvement in my tone and playing, and that was encouragement enough for me to update my profile to add “Recently started learning Irish flute.”

Dave was great to deal with… I initially considered the ‘close holed’ model but he shared some measurements and information that convinced me that I would not have a problem with standard hole spacing, and I chose that model. It was the right choice, despite not having large hands. Now my journey begins.

AW

BTW anyone looking for a mediocre wooden flute or a PVC flute that only Michael Jordan could play should contact me directly.