Help me solve my flute hunt

Irish Flute
1

Hey folks,

Im having a significant conflict in what flute Id like to go for next. I really enjoyed the Baubet I had before, but Id like to try something else. I like the hard, reedy attack of a pratten, the middle ground of a Rudall, and I have not tried a Firth and Pond style flute, but I am interested. I dont play sessions, so Im mostly playing for my own enjoyment and potential recording situations.

I live in the berkshires in Massachusetts, so it gets very humid during the summer, super dry in the winter. A wooden flute may crack despite best efforts to ensure it doesnt (humidifcation, oiling, hygrometer monitoring) so I tend to lean toward delrin, which I do like.

I have medium sized hands with very slender fingers and large knuckles, so wider holes tend to present issues for me, flute grip and pipers grip. I was kind of leaning toward Firth and Pond for that reason (theres the Galeon Firth and Pond model which is an option), but would this sacrifice too much of the low end honk?
Theres Forbes, Copley, VDM, Somers, Galeon, Etc. all in delrin, but I cant guage what the size of holes are really like.

If Im too overconcerned with fragility of wood, there is a Healy flute I could opt for, though Im not sure about the hole sizes on that one either. I also saw a Copley in blackwood online. Not too many folks are selling Delrin flutes second hand at the moment, but again I saw a Copley floating around, and irish flute store has some Galeons which do sound pretty lovely. Theres also that new Polymer Rudal Galeon but I havent seen folks say much about that flute yet and the gamble may be too expensive perhaps.

So ultimately, either convince me that I shouldnt be soo worried about wood flutes cracking somehow, or maybe suggest a delrin flute that is very reedy, but has maybe an adequate amount of honk, easy fill, manageably smaller finger holes and is sub $500-$600 usd. Is it the Firth and Pond Galeon? or something else

2

So, apart from hole size and spacing, how any flute will sound will significantly be more about you than the flute itself. Don’t get me wrong, the flute can and does make a difference, especially with regard to how you feel and enjoy playing it. But having owned an original Firth & Pond, an original Wylde, delrin pratten flutes, delrin rudall style flutes, Copley delrin (Hawkes design)…my wife assures me I sound like me on all of them.

I’ve not played any Galeon models, but I do know you can honk and play loudly on a Firth, Pond style flute if you are able to make the flute do what it’s capable of doing. Copley is based on Hawkes and Son flute, which I find to be between a Rudall style flute and a Pratten style. I have small hands, skinny fingers, and it’s easy for me to play.

That said…there is a used Walt Sweet Shannon for sale at a great price on the used instrument forum. I loved it when I had my Shannon…I even added an Eb key so I could play it mostly chromatic, but I sold it because I wanted all 8 keys. It does have two offset holes to help with reach, and I know that’s a dealbreaker for me but others love it. It also comes sans rings, so it’s a sleek black flute but doesn’t look super traditional…but they play amazingly well…truly lovely and by far the best bang for your buck out there ($235 if I recall correctly). Just an option.

Eric

3

I have a Forbes (had - lending it to a friend) and love how easy it is to get an animal like hard tone and it is light and resonant, but the holes are very much on the large side. If youve had trouble with your fingers being too thin to cover a wide hole then you should rule out the Forbes. OTOH the Forbes’s holes are close together so it would actually be easy to reach with short fingers.

The Seery delrin is supposed to be a Pratten design, but the tone holes are surprisingly small, so that might be worth trying? I have not seen a Baubet in person but it is my understanding tgat the delrin Seery would be considered a downgrade by many, perhaps because the Seery is manufactured in greater numbers. The Seery is so easy to play. Its embouchure is a wonderfully easy for me anyway, wide range of tones from sweet to screaming, and I find it easier to get snappy ornaments on the smaller holes of the Seery.

I also had a Galeon Firth and Pond but sold it. It was also very nice but because of its different design I had ornament fingerings and half holing that worked differently and I didn’t want to have to adjust. The tone tended toward brighter, maybe? If I opened up to an ohh shape it could almost sound like a low whistle (but louder) or you can push it harrrd too. Very small tone holes as advertised.

Sorry I just meant to comment on the Forbes hole size but I couldnt help but to bather on about the rest of my limited experience, lol！

Also re wooden flutes cracking in the dry winter, is this perhaps not as big of a deal with newer well-designed flutes? Web sites from makers like Terry McGee and Walt Sweet seem to show that they have adjusted the way the tuning slide fits into the wood in order to relieve the stress when the wood changes shape. I wonder if folks like Copely etc have taken this into account as well? Probably?

4

Jayhawk- I generally get that a flutes timbre and character are largely up to the player, but theres definitely intrinsic elements that cannot be controlled beyond a certain point and those are the things Im most curious about in this context. The ability to fill the flute quickly, response time, the power ‘ceiling’, overall volume, the embouchure cut, etc. Ive noticed that my embouchure has improved so much that junky flutes I couldnt even get a sound from before (like pakistani firewood some call them) will sound and play, and a splendid flute will sound so much better. I am hesitant to go with a larger pratten style instrument due to the overall breath requirements and hole size, so I am having a bit of pause in regards to just jumping on the forbes at the moment. Ive read so many people cast their vote for the forbes pratten as a powerful and resonant instrument, but Ive also seen comments on the difficulty of covering holes and the overall air requirements being steeper, that its a very loud beast (which is great for some!) and while Im aware one can control volume reasonably, this is still something Im looking at.
The Healy Im looking at gives me the same kind of pause. Folks comment on how large the finger holes are and how it might not be for smaller hands.
That Sweet Shannon is around $280 and not including shipping. So Id be spending probably around $300 at the point. I will definitely add it to my list to contemplate and research.


Jefff-
Cracking is still an issue for me in my climate up here, even with newer instruments. I had a MacManus whistle shipped to me one winter and it developed a bad crack in transit, and I had a couple other whistles develop small cracks even whilst being properly humidified and kept in their controlled containers. It got to the point that I was wary of even playing any wooden instruments in my house at all. My concertina has dymondwood ends and plywood reedpans to specifically handle this climate. Its a bit bonkers really. So the Healy in blackwood, which is in the same state I live in, may survive better having been made in Rhode Island and lived its life in this part of the country, but I feel like my house is perhaps cursed to ruin lovely wooden instruments. Curiously though, my guitars are all fine. Knock on wood.

Do you have an idea of how wide your finger pads are? mine are around 14.5mm or so, so when theres a hole bigger than that, I struggle to play normally and pipers grip wouldnt even change anything. If the Forbes holes are approaching that size, I might have to try something else. I am tempted by the things people say about the Forbes voice and intensity, and I love an easily achievable bell tone, but ergonomics will always be paramount.

The Seerys Ive seen online are usually around $600 I think, and only available from McNeela, unless you perhaps can order directly from them. Id rather not go the McNeela route, but if I see one pop up I might consider it.

What did you think about the Firth and Pond’s low D/bell tone? Were you able to get it hard and consistently or was it one of those situations where youd have to rework your embouchure a bit to get it just right and attacking it quickly is a bit iffy? I really like the idea of the promise of a somewhat brighter or crisper sound, but I do use a pretty focused embouchure. Snappiness is what Im thinking would be possibly missing from a smaller hole flute, but I wont know without testimony and unfortunately there isnt really a whole lot said online about this particular Galeon. The embouchure cut being sort of square is curious, I do like experimentation with voicing and might appreciate the timbre it can generate. The head is lined on the one on offer I think, which is nice though unnecessary for a delrin flute maybe?

But yeah, dont apologize for the details sir, I prefer getting a lot of data, it helps me make an informed decision and as of yet, Im still struggling on that front

5

Hmmm, i’m not sure how to accurately compare or measure the size of my fingers, but I do know that I am tall and broad and I have quite large hands overall. So, the forbes felt very natural to me. Every day I wonder if I shouldn’t have lent it out! (But let’s be real i don’t need multiple derlin d flutes!). A flute playing friend of mine with very small hands tried the Forbes and literally had her left hand’s middle finger tip almost fall directly through the hole into the flute. And the right hand middle finger was difficult for her to get a reliable seal as well (pipers grip on the right hand). But on the other hand, she said that the reach was really easy and she didn’t have to stretch out the way she does on her Rudall model. It might be worth a try, considering that you can sell it for what you paid for it, but it’s definitely some of the largest tone holes I’ve ever seen on a flute. If you haven’t had any problems yet with your fingers not being wide enough to seal a tone hole, though, maybe you’ll be totally fine. You can easily sell it if it doesn’t work for you. :slight_smile:

The Galeon Firth and Pond has a lot of easy tone options from sweet, to hard and loud, to open and bell like. The embouchure hole is big and flat and easy to hit in all kinds of ways. The low D sounded as easily as any other note and it was in tune. Definitely not as hard or dirty growly as the Forbes, it feels almost like an opposite in ways. And despite the small finger holes and bore, it is not lacking in loudness. And the small tone holes snap pretty easily, however, the choice of which fingers you use to get a sharp roll might have to change - only some of them respond well for percussive sounds. It also has a different response to cross fingerings and half-holing (for example, I found half-holing an f-nat impossible on the galeon f&p until I smoothed the edges of hole-five a bit with some steel wool). Yeah the brass lining is probably pointless but it makes it feel more expensive than it is.

If you’re looking for something different from what you’ve already played, either of those would check that box I should think. And both of them could not be more different from eachother, too.

6

Or … to add to the decision paralysis, Thompson delrin flutes are supposed to be great too. Harry Bradley has been posting a lot on Youtube, and I remember recently seeing in some of the video titles that he’s playing a Thompson. And he sounded fabulously just like himself of course!

7

I’ll take a stab at alleviating concerns about wooden flutes. Let’s start with the premise that a comfortable environment for a wooden flute is also a comfortable environment for your body, and for any other wooden items you own.

So why not use a room humidifier for your music practice room that keeps humidity in a comfortable range? Even whole-house humidifiers are available for heating systems.

There are other ways to do this, like keeping your flute in a case inside a large humidified plastic box, but a room humidifier is not very expensive. Maintaining a comfortable level of temperature and humidity in a room or your whole house is better for your musical instruments, for your house plants, for your body, and it keeps the static down when you pet your cat.

FWIW I live in the Pacific Northwest USA where we don’t have severe winters, but in a cold snap the RH could get down to below the 40% range, so I keep a room humidifier in our music room. All my flutes are wooden, and all but one have metal-lined heads which are theoretically a problem but no cracks so far.

If you can manage a controlled home environment, then you’ll have a far greater selection of available flutes on both the new and used market than just flutes in Delrin. Especially if you want a keyed flute. I bought all four of my current wooden flutes on the used market.

8

FWIW I live in the Pacific Northwest USA where we don’t have severe winters, but in a cold snap the RH could get down to below the 40% range

Oh my! 40%… Try 15% in a cold snap in the mountain-interior-West.!

The plastic box works very well for me - More or less constant 50%. The lid isn’t super-tight, and I have a guitar humidifier stashed inside. (The circular kind with an interior sponge and a few holes).

In my climate, a room humidifier tends to pump too much moisture into the air, which ends up condensing on the coldest surfaces, for example the basement wall inside the insulation. That leads to mold and other unpleasant consequences.

9

I have a Damian Thomson delrin student flute - great tone and strong low D. I visited Damien in his workshop this month to discuss a keyed flute he will be making for me next year. The sound is awesome - he is very approachable. Drop him a note on his website - he answered lots of questions for me before I placed my order.