Another mystery flute

I have another anonymous flute, recently restored, that I’d like some help identifying. I originally bought this flute on eBay with the expectation that it would be a generic, poor quality German flute that I could use as a kind of experimental platform for practicing retuning techniques. Once I got it into decent enough shape to be able to play, I found that it was in A=440 and that it played surprisingly well. I also found that it had a significantly smaller bore and smaller tone holes than any other flute I’ve played, and so required very little air. Despite this it had a decent sound - not what I would consider a quiet flute, but a bit quieter than say a Firth Hall & Pond, and still quite resonant with a decent low D.

These playing characteristics make it feel quite different to the other German (Nach Meyer type) flutes I’ve worked on. It also looks quite different, in that it has a small round embouchure, and does not have the angled G# key that is very common in German flutes. In terms of tuning anomalies, its second octave G was decidedly sharp, and its second octave A a bit sharp too. The first octave notes were not too bad though. So I did a little retuning with shellac to reduce the tone hole size for those notes without adjusting their position (i.e., build up the south side). This seems to have pulled them quite well into tune.

In terms of repairs, it required the head lining and tuning slide lining to be pulled in order to ream and repair cracks. All rings were originally lose, so it has been slowly rehydrated, rings all refitted/glued, complete rekey with leather pads, oiling, polishing etc, etc. For the past few weeks its been in good playing condition, so I think I’ve succeeded in bringing it back to life. Now I wonder what exactly it is. If you have any ideas about the likely origins of this flute I’d appreciate hearing them. It has no makers marks.

Here are some pictures:

Thanks!

Jon

While not an exact match it does look like a Riviere and Hawkes, they seem to have varied their designs a lot but certain details look familiar.
https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/m-e-flutes-made-in-pakistan-no-wrong/59119/1

As it appears I may be soon playing this flute, I’d love to know anything about it I can :slight_smile:

My guess it is a flute made in the US, probably a band flute, circa 1850’s. The absence of the upper ring on the barrel, was done a lot in American flutes, the keys have a German style, which was also used in American flutes around that time period.
The flute looks like it has a shellac finish, that has become discolored by the heat from the players fingers.

Jon C. wrote:

The flute looks like it has a shellac finish, that has become discolored by the heat from the players fingers.

Good eye! In real life you can see where the players fingers have rested. The wood is darker there, but the surface finish is still very smooth and shiny, i.e., it does not appear to be worn, just darker.

Kelly is going to try it out for a while to see if it satisfies his need for an inexpensive, small hole, low air requirement, easy to play flute. If not it’ll be back home with me.

Plays like a dream. Just what I was looking for too. Now I’d like to figure out more about its history if possible.

Here is a American flute that looks similar on eBay. Notice the barrel without the upper ring…
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Antique-Sonntag-New-York-4-Key-6-Hole-4-Piece-Wooden-Wood-Flute-Fixer-/270846158384?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0fb06630

Slight thread Hi-Jack.
I just received the flute Jon C. referenced above. I’ll be posting pictures a little later, and soliciting advice on how to proceed in refurbishing it. It is branded Sonntag, New York on the head joint, and the top of top-hand joint. It has a poorly repaired crack in the tuning barrel and the Bb key is cracked at the axle and will need to be soldered up. Clearly branded by a dealer. I can’t tell if it is American or imported from England. It will barely play a second octave A at 440 Hz, with an extension of 15.5 MM (I play a little sharp).
Any information about who Sonntag was?

Bob

Bob, I bet Sonntag is a dealer. The flute was probably a milatary band instrument, they liked to play a little sharp. Probably not much reason to farm out the work to England, it was probably made local. I have run into a couple of imports rebranded for USA, you can usually tell with the flat foot! Good luck on the restoration! If you have any questions, let me know.

Yes, I’m betting Sonntag is a dealer as you say, Jon. I won’t be able to tell if it has a flat foot until I get the very tatty joints re-corked, and of course a properly re-padded set of keys. Just now I cannot get the first octave. The two things that puzzle me/may point to overseas manufacture are the key touches. . .really much rounder than the lozenge shaped German style ones I’ve seen, and the bottom of the foot joint. . .quite a lot like British band flutes I’ve seen. Just don’t know.

Bob

According to the NLI, Herman Sonntag was a musical instrument importer and dealer. He headed his own firm, under the mark “Sonntag, New York” from 1866 until 1890. In 1885 he was advertised as both an importer and manufacturer, but there is little to suggest that he was actually involved in musical instrument making.

I see what you mean about the key shape, but I think that was just the style, post Pratten, and Hawkes. No doubt, they copied the same style in the US… The pointy join at the cup is very German, but later Hawkes flutes had that style too. I wonder if they were importing form Germany at that point in the later 19th century, kind of like we do today with Chinese imports?
The 1890’s industrial age..
I didn’t have my New Langwill with me, just guessed. I have to start bringing it with me on retreat… :smiley:

So that’s what it is on my Frenchie! Pretty decent, that. Knew it existed but didn’t know that it was like that. I’ll have to experiment with this finish some day.