Keyed Whistle.

Tak_the_whistler · Post by **Tak_the_whistler** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 5:55 am

Has anyone got one? Is it a flute with a whistle head on? I saw a 5-hole flute in Generation website and I thought I might give it a similar try on my inexpensive D. If I was a millionaire I would sacrifice an Overtone 10-hole but that would never happen. And, if a whistle is keyed then is it still a whistle?

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 8:03 am

Tak,

Could you give us a link? You've Got my curiosity up.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 9:57 am

Daniel B. is making them.

Tyghress · Post by **Tyghress** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:00 am

Ralph Sweet will do a keyed whistle. It's still a whistle, and end blown fipple flute, but the keys give you easier ways than half holing for certain notes, like a G# when you're playing in the key of A.

Daniel_Bingamon · Post by **Daniel_Bingamon** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:02 pm

A Low-D keyed whistle still has the fingering of a Low-D.

The extra keys give you all the additional notes.

BTW - Keys can also be added to regular whistles to make it possible for players with smaller hands play in a key that would normally be out of reach.
A little sloped piece of foam around the key allows it the key to be pressed down partially to allow the pitch to slide for ornamentation. A normally open key that has slide capability on the bottom Low-d note can pressed down halfway to get an Eb.

A few other whistlemakers are also making keys,

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 2:39 am

Daniel, I did look at your website.
What are the keys you are putting on
your whistles, which notes?
Is there a C natural? Best

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 3:59 am

It's possible to join a whistle mouthpiece to a flute body, if they fit together properly. I think it was JessieK that posted recently of successfully putting an Abell F mouthpiece on a Boehm piccolo.

If you can find a proper match (that would fit and play in tune) you could do this with a keyed flute of the non-Boehm type, as easily.

As has already been pointed out, Daniel Bingamon and Ralph Sweet both produce keyed whistles.

Also there are some historic keyed fipple flutes.

The English flageolet was somewhat like a keyed whistle, except that it had a beak with a sponge in it that one blew through, which gave back pressure and helped absorb excess moisture (Daniel, have you thought of this concept for the bagwhistles?). Not all flageolets were keyed. I think that Stacy produces a keyless version, and a double flageolet.

The Wienerflageolett was a keyed 6-hole whistle.

Ths Csakan was a keyed version of the recorder, which was made in the 19th and 20th Centuries. Adler made these before the Baroque recorder revival. Paetzold and Elmar Hofmann are two makers of csakans today.

These Victorian-era instruments may not be reproduced as much by historical instrument makers as early instruments, but early-music dealers might be a good place to check for such things.

Daniel_Bingamon · Post by **Daniel_Bingamon** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:58 am

The sponge does sound like a good idea for the bagwhistle. Especially since it could be difficult to clear the drone if clogged (although I haven't seen that happen yet). The bag has to get pretty wet first. The question is where is the best place to put the sponge.

Flageolet were produced with keys and it had had a sponge. I don't know of anyone doing look alike reproductions of these.

Jessie had an Abell mouthpiece that fit into a Boehm type flute and it worked very well.
I've thought about doing that as well but she beat me to the draw. Since then I built a Nickel-Silver whistle mouthpiece that fits into my $35.00 Ebay purchased Gemeinhardt flute - it works nicely and actually make the Gemeinhardt sound better in my opinion. Of course I'm in favor more of the Low Whistle sound. The flute has a whole different feel in the vertical postion - however I wonder if it is in need of right hand thumb rest.
The pinky key on the Boehm flute in vertical position is little stressed on my wrist - I could imagine my carpal tunnel flaring up after playing too long.

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 8:08 am

Daniel, please tell what is the sound volume difference between your concert flute played as a flute and the same played with your whistle headjoint ?
Also, is this combination quieter or louder than, say, a good low D whistle ?

I just have an eye on this silver-plated, offset-G, "French" keys Blessing at ca. 250$...

PS: and if you feel like hacksawing decent-looking thumbrests, let us know

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zubivka on 2003-02-15 09:10 ]</font>

Daniel_Bingamon · Post by **Daniel_Bingamon** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 1:35 pm

First of all, I don't have the best flute embouchure but...

The Low end notes on the whistle are a little weak and it wants to to easily get into the second octave. A Boehm flute bore diameter is pretty narrow for use as a Low Whistle. The flute wins on the low end.

After you get past 'G' the sound is about the same.

In the upper octave, the whistle mouthpiece has great sound but it starts going a little flat.
This is to be expected since the Boehm flute expects to have a tapered mouthpiece to bring the second octave into tune.

The low end notes are pretty good in the second octave.

What is amazing is that the bore diameter which allows the Boehm flute to play in the third octave also plays in the third octave with a whistle mouthpiece.

Daniel_Bingamon · Post by **Daniel_Bingamon** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 1:40 pm

Are there any Flute players here that have a Gemeinhardt headjoint compatible flute that want experiment with this thing?

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 2:13 pm

Is a Blessing gemeinhardt-compateebul ? Then I'd happily volunteer /D

Now Daniel, what you said about the 3rd ocatve is thrilling ! I don't give a heck at my stage about this 3rd octave per se, but this tells a lot about top of the 2nd...

Now you say the 2nd octave is wrong since you...--Awwwg, sacrilege! please forgive us Sankt Theoboehm The Bald!-- (aarrgh...) d-i-d N-O-T taper the bore of your whistle headjoint froim 19 to 17 mm, as expressly prescribed in the Holey Scriptura ?

Dana · Post by **Dana** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 2:16 pm

Ooooh, sounds interesting. I have 2 flutes, one of which ought to fit. I have a wood Powell flute, which seems to fit .014 wall headjoints. I also have an .016 silver Burkart. I'll never be able to play low whistles because of my very small hands, but I love the sound.

There's a guy (perhaps Drelinger?) that makes vertical flute headjoints (not whistle headjoints). He sells supports to snap on the flute that facilitate holding the flute vertically. Perhaps these would fit the bill.

Daniel_Bingamon · Post by **Daniel_Bingamon** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:18 pm

I think you would be good person to try it.
I'm not sure on the diameter for a Blessing Flute, this mouthpiece does seem to fit a few others. Give it a try, send me your address via email: daniel@bingamon.com

Theobald did not build my whistle and I have transgressed his design spec. - I hope he is not turning over in his grave at this. - It is after all in the name of research (that might make things better)!

After you try it, we'll pass it to the next person on the list.

On 2003-02-15 15:13, Zubivka wrote:
Is a Blessing gemeinhardt-compateebul ? Then I'd happily volunteer /D

Now Daniel, what you said about the 3rd ocatve is thrilling ! I don't give a heck at my stage about this 3rd octave per se, but this tells a lot about top of the 2nd...

Now you say the 2nd octave is wrong since you...--Awwwg, sacrilege! please forgive us Sankt Theoboehm The Bald!-- (aarrgh...) d-i-d N-O-T taper the bore of your whistle headjoint froim 19 to 17 mm, as expressly prescribed in the Holey Scriptura ?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Daniel_Bingamon on 2003-02-15 18:20 ]</font>

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:50 pm

Daniel, I have sent you a private message.