5 Tunes you Hate

[Julia Delaney]

It's time we heard from Krassen:

I certainly don't think my book is "the best" by any means. I do think it was a very well-intentioned addition to what was available in '76. Since then many excellent books have come out and Irish music has undergone a renaissance. I wanted my book, which by the way, lists "Miles Krassen" as author, not O'Neill, and is entitled, "O'Neill's Music of Ireland, Revised," to be a tribute to the great players I knew and the 78rpm recordings they loved. Had the publisher allowed me to write a book just focused on that goal, including maybe 50-60 settings, it might have been better. But the publisher wasn't interested in that. They just wanted to get a copyright for something called "O'Neill's," and that is the only book on Irish music they were willing to publish in '76.

[Azathoth]

I find I stop disliking tunes just about the first time I hear them played properly.

(I bet I could even get to like Tam Linn if I ever heard it played so that it didn't sound like someone practising arpeggios.)

[crookedtune]

Exactly. Not to undermine the pleasure of controversy, but I reckon that's what some of us meant in our TL slams.

Any tune is a good tune when given life. Boredom sets in, for example, when it becomes an empty, aerobic exercise, which some tunes lend themselves to more than others. The relative lack of that in ITM sessions is what pulled me over from the world of oldtime stringband jams, where "festival" versions played at warp speed often annihilate any recollection of the tune's core personality.

[Gordon]

Over the half-century mark, I don't think I'm young, by any standard. Love Michael Coleman recordings, too...

I bought the Krassen book by mistake - ordered the original O'Neill's; they sent Krassen - while trying to learn tunes in conjunction with sit-down lessons at Jack Coen's kitchen table some 14 years ago, when I was a newbie. Jack would occasionally write out his settings of tunes for me, and then play them differently, but that's the nature of the beast. Mostly, I brought home recordings of his playing, but I often tried to use the notation (if it was in O'Neill's) to suppliment what I was learning. Though I rarely look at notation for tunes now, when I do, I still find the Krassen unusable, or at best, frustrating (although his jigs and hornpipes suffer the least from his editorial treatment), and I greatly prefer the original O'Neill's (put out by Waltons, and purchased thru Mel Bay).

I think my feeling is that style should never supercede substance; in Krassen's attempt to interject a particular style and setting onto older, sometimes questionable notations, he put this fairly large collection into a less useful form, choosing a particular and gentrified style (ornamental choices and sometimes peculiar settings) over substance (the tunes themselves, in their skeletal form). O'Neill's original collection is a sometimes awkward attempt to write tunes down as they were played then, in the settings they knew and, while some settings are obsolete, there's an authenticity to them.

In either case, no one learns to play Irish music by reading notation alone. My feeling is that Krassen would have been better served (or we would have been) by penning a chapter or three on Sligo ornamentions, with examples taken from the tune selection in the fashion he chose, and then simply revising O'Neill's text for musical flaws (time and key signature errors). In response to Krassen's quote above, I understand and appreciate his view, and so I take back my rather harsh denunciation of his intent and purpose.

All said, I am glad to hear that others found the source useful and even helpful in their early days. Like tunes we love or hate, we all have different preferences and experiences.

[benhall.1]

Interesting interjection, JD. I understand the pressures there must have been from the publisher, and my problems with it aren't with the author per se, but with the book itself which, as all books, is the product not just of the author but of the publisher and everybody else who had a hand in bringing that product to market. I had already gathered that the publisher had wanted to use the O'Neill's name as a marketing tool. As I recall, it came out at a time when the facsimile edition of The 1001 Gems was either out of print or difficult to obtain, and that would have helped sales of the new book.

It sounds as if, for me, I would have been much more interested in the book that Miles Krassen wanted to write. It's never too late ...

[Daibhidh]

With my limited playing and listening experience I can only come up with two mildly disliked tunes. I found after not playing for a month and learning some nicer tunes the one's I knew beforehand gave me a sick taste in my mouth.

1.The Road to Lisdoonvarna - was a lovely tune, probably the first tune I came to love as it was simple, I could get really into it but now it is repetitive and boring.

2.The Boys of Bluehill - much the same reason as above.

I'll add to this if I get bored of any of my current favourites...

[Rob Sharer]

The only thing I hate is this thread. Many fine tunes getting run down in it.




Rob

[Akiba]

The only thing I hate is this thread. Many fine tunes getting run down in it.

Rob

Indeed, who started this vile thread anyways?

I get your point--I like Road to Lisdoon and Boys of Bluehll. Had to find interesting ways to play them. I always think that's the trick. I like to say: "You can't dislike a tune until you can play the sh*t out of it."

Jason

[Daibhidh]

The only thing I hate is this thread. Many fine tunes getting run down in it.

Rob

Indeed, who started this vile thread anyways?

I get your point--I like Road to Lisdoon and Boys of Bluehll. Had to find interesting ways to play them. I always think that's the trick. I like to say: "You can't dislike a tune until you can play the sh*t out of it."

Jason

I purposefully picked the word 'dislike' as opposed to 'hate' in this thread. Surely this thread might rekindle some love for songs people have long since decided they 'hate'? Surely forums are places to openly discuss loves and hates too. I would like to see a 'what song gets you excited or puts a spring in your step' thread .

[jemtheflute]

Surely this thread might rekindle some love for songs people have long since decided they 'hate'? Surely forums are places to openly discuss loves and hates too. I would like to see a 'what song gets you excited or puts a spring in your step' thread .

I thought the thread was about tunes, not songs?

I enjoyed a great night at The Eddie sesh in Liverpool last night (Monday evening)..... great craic - and a lot of old "hack" tunes trotted out but played with gusto. I was wryly reminded of this thread because during the evening we had first The Pinch of Snuff (stepping up and winding down version), a bit later Tam Linn and eventually Music for a Found Harmonium. We misssed The Jig of Slurs out on this occasion....... but otherwise, it was pure torture!

[I.D.10-t]

I must say that I am not familiar with the history of Tam Linn or the Glasgow. Does it actually have anything to do with the folktales? When was it written (if known), etc?

[rama]

tunes played by me which i dislike:
1. tunes played too fast "rushed" or "blurry"
2. tunes played played technically and viod of feeling
3. tunes played w/ too much variant, so it's practically unrecognizable
4. tunes played w/ no beat - rhythm is flatlined
5. tunes played w/ no melodic expression

[Julia Delaney]

Now, how about posters we dislike? Posters we hate? Politicians we like?

Remember when we came to tunes with a beginner's mind, with an attitude of openness, eagerness, and a lack of preconceptions about what was good or not, and with no idea about what we liked or didn't, and every tune seemed possible and filled with magic? Remember the first time that we tried to play a hard tune, one that didn't make sense, that we did not like? And then we did play it, after fumbling around, and we found something lovely about it? That sense of discovery?

I bet that people like Peter Horan and Micho Russell disliked very few tunes, if they disliked any at all. Same goes for Frank Custy, Mike Rafferty, and Ben Lennon.

[an seanduine]

I don't learn tunes easily. For me to learn a tune, I have to find something about it that I love or at least admire. Sometimes I have to be formally introduced to it through looking at the 'dots' to get its basic framework. . .but that's Ok. Every time I learn a new tune I can look forward to a long and rewarding relationship. Like any good friend I find new things about the tune each time I play it. I look for small variations I can put in to vary each turn.

It's been said that 'a poem is a formal structure in love with itself'. I find a tune is a familiar structure I can fall in love with. . . . .

Bob

[jemtheflute]

I must say that I am not familiar with the history of Tam Linn or the Glasgow. Does it actually have anything to do with the folktales? When was it written (if known), etc?

See the Discussion notes on The Session and a more authoritative provenance on The Fiddler's Companion.