Beginning Whistler

[pokeybro]

Hi,

A while back I bought a Clarke Celtic (the only type I could find here) and began trying to learn it. I have a wealth of tunes I printed off the 'net -- you whistlers are a generous bunch! However, I have a few problems I was hoping you could give me advice about (other than the best one - practice).

First, I spent years in high school and college playing trumpet and French Horn. Sometimes I want to insert a fingering from those on one hand or the other, though I'm trying hard to break myself from thinking of those fingerings.

Second, I have a block sometimes, especially in quick (or as quick as I get) passages when I cross over the C# to D gap. I guess I think in lines going up and down the whistle too much, I don't know.

Third, I still have a hard time putting in any orniments. Is there anyplace I can see tips on where to place them? I'm trying to break myself from playing straight from the music.

Anyway, I love my whistle! I look forward to annoying friends and family for some time to come!

Faith & Hope,
Rick Brooks
Chelsea (Oklahoma)

[DrGiggles]

On 2001-07-10 20:14, pokeybro wrote:

First, I spent years in high school and college playing trumpet and French Horn. Sometimes I want to insert a fingering from those on one hand or the other, though I'm trying hard to break myself from thinking of those fingerings.

Second, I have a block sometimes, especially in quick (or as quick as I get) passages when I cross over the C# to D gap. I guess I think in lines going up and down the whistle too much, I don't know.

Third, I still have a hard time putting in any orniments. Is there anyplace I can see tips on where to place them? I'm trying to break myself from playing straight from the music.

Ahh... Going from Brass to Woodwinds. A movement which will cause much joy and enlightenment.

Well, practice is a biggie, but there are probably a few places we can offer some tips. Instrument fingerings will come with practice. Scales and Arpeggios as well as some sight-reading is good for this. You've probably played fr horn and trumpet for years, the whistle is just a new girlfriend - you need to learn her likes and dislikes. Don't worry, you'll get the hang of the fingerings, just keep spending time with her.

If you're having trouble with quick passages, you're playing them too fast (see above) - slow them down or else you'll develop more habits that you'll need to break later. A couple of fingering tidbits that you might need to verbally hear, although they make sense and you probably already know: 1. Keep your fingers close to the whistle. On trumpet, you'd need to bring the piston all the way back up, here you need mere millimeters - just enough to keep the tone from going flat. 2. There are "cheats" in fingerings that can be done, especially in fast passages. The two that come to mind is that D' can be played XXXXXX instead of OXXXXX in fast passages, and C# can be OOOXXX instead of OOOOOO or OOOOOX. However, these notes can be a bit out of tune, so I wouldn't hold a note with these fingerings.

Ornaments??? Personally, I'd say work on problems 1 and 2 before tackling ornaments. They are very similar to modern grace notes, turns, and glissandos, but they have a different flavor to them. There are quite a few on-line tutorials that cover these (I think C&F has one too), but Clarke's TinWhistle Handbook by Bill Ochs would be a very good investment.

Good Luck and Enjoy...
-Frank

Subliminal message: Practice, practice, practice... then have an oreo cookie and milk!

[brewerpaul]

Best way to get ornaments into your playing is to get them into your head first!!! Listen to as much Celtic music as you can and start to get a feel for where an ornament would or would not be appropriate. Some might argue with me, but I feel that a tune well played with few if any ornaments is much better than a badly played tune jammed full of them. Some regional styles are rather sparse on ornaments anyway.
Some of the tutoring methods such as Bill Ochs' The Clarke Tinwhistle have very good sections on ornamentation, with a tape or CD so you can hear what the book is showing you.
For now though, just concentrate on fingering, breathing, and learning some tunes by heart-- when you know a tune by heart, it will be a LOT easier to add ornaments later.

[StevieJ]

Transitions between the octaves are difficult at first. I often tell beginners that the only fingerings that require any practice at all (a slight exaggeration) are the transitions between the octaves.

I suggest that they repeat B-Cnat-D-Cnat-B and B-C#-D-C#-D ad nauseam until they can get these passages to sound absolutely clean at speed. It's a good idea to practise these passages legato (without tonguing), because tonguing can hide sloppy fingering changes very effectively.

I'd like to take issue with the following point raised by Dr Giggles:

D' can be played XXXXXX instead of OXXXXX in fast passages, and C# can be OOOXXX instead of OOOOOO or OOOOOX. However, these notes can be a bit out of tune, so I wouldn't hold a note with these fingerings.

Dr G, have you really found that the two alternative fingerings you give for C# alter the pitch of the note on any whistle you have? This is the first time I've heard this suggestion and I can't hear any difference on my whistles.

Regarding the D', I have heard the idea that the note is not properly in tune when you don't vent the top hole, but I think it's not an issue. Using a sensitive electronic tuner and a range of different whistles, I put this idea to the test and came to the conclusion that far more variation in pitch is caused by variations in breath pressure. In other words you can easily blow the note into or out of tune.

When you lift the top finger, the sound is definitely clearer and brighter, and I think this may be responsible for the impression that the pitch is different. I agree that the top finger should be lifted for sustained notes because of this brighter sound. In fast passages, however, I think it only makes sense to use whichever fingering is easiest. I wouldn't worry at all about the pitch for D', and certainly not for C#.

[DrGiggles]

Regarding the C#: On my D or lower whistles, there isn't any tone difference between OOOXXX and OOOOOO. However, on my Generation High F and High G, I notice a significant difference.

[StevieJ]

Hmm, strange. I was going to write, one more reason not to play those piercing little buggers! But I just dug out a Generation high G and F and I can't hear a difference. Are you blessed (or perhaps cursed) with superhuman auditory faculties?

[NicoMoreno]

Hey Pokeybro, this is very OT but...
Are you planning on giving up the french horn permanently?
'Cause if that is so, I think I could manage to give your horn a good home!!!


Nico

[FairEmma]

Pokey,

Switching instruments is like entering a different gestalt - with enough practice you get to the point where you pick up the instrument and the fingering is simply there, without having to think.

I heartily support playing things slowly at first. Speed comes naturally in time, but it is ever so hard to make your hands unlearn the mistakes. There is also the tendency to slow down just before the troublesome passage. Try not to let it become troublesome in the first place (particularly since your fingers already have their own idea of where they want to be based on your other instruments).

I routinely use 000XXX for C# and can't hear a smidgeon of difference in intonation between that and the standard fingering on all my whistles. However, I do find this fingering very often produces a stronger tone that keeps it in better balance with the notes around it. Also, it helps me hold on to my instrument!

best of luck
FE

[pokeybro]

Thanks all for your suggestions! I'm typing this on the sligh at work, so I'd better get off.

Faith & Hope,
Rick

[JayMitch]

Rick,

You've gotten good advice from players much more experienced than me, so I won't add any. I just wanted to welcome the only person I've come across (besides me) who follows this board from Oklahoma.

By the way, you may have noticed there is something of a dearth of Celtic music in our area. I know of two exceptions: a session at Arnie's Bar in Tulsa on the first and third Sunday of each month (starts at 6:30 I think), and the Celtic Music Series at the Tulsa PAC. That series is what first got me interested in Celtic music, which led me to the tinwhistle, and it's been downhill ever since. Anyway, the series at the PAC starts September 28-29 with the Tannahill Weavers. I know it's a bit of a trip for you, but still!

Anyway, welcome, and let me know if I can be of help.

--Jay
Tulsa, OK

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: JayMitch on 2001-07-11 16:38 ]</font>

[AnnaDMartinez]

One great piece of advice I got from Ron Clarke in OZ was that ornamentiation will just happen as it's supposed to when you're playing. It's very individual and not at all rigid.

[WyoBadger]

I'm with Anna and Paul. You would probably be wise to get one of the books mentioned to learn HOW to play the ornaments, but when it comes down to WHEN to play them, it's very much a matter of personal taste. In fact, that's where traditional Irish music gets most of its texture--everyone's playing the same tune, but they're all doing their own take on it, which produces something very much like harmony. What fun! So, listen to lots of Irish/Scottish music (I'm very fond of both), and before too long you'll find yourself putting those ornaments into place without even really trying to.

Good luck! Take your time and don't forget--this is supposed to be FUN!!

(:

Tom

[talasiga]

I'm with Anna and Paul. You would probably be wise to get one of the books mentioned to learn HOW to play the ornaments, but when it comes down to WHEN to play them, it's very much a matter of personal taste. In fact, that's where traditional Irish music gets most of its texture--everyone's playing the same tune, but they're all doing their own take on it, which produces something very much like harmony. What fun! So, listen to lots of Irish/Scottish music (I'm very fond of both), and before too long you'll find yourself putting those ornaments into place without even really trying to.

.......

Nice post.

[walrii]

By the way, you may have noticed there is something of a dearth of Celtic music in our area.

Yes, we've noticed. I live just south of the Red River in Texas. Holler if you're ever headed south and I'll go stand next to I-44 and pipe you aboard the Republic of Texas with a rendition of "Off to California," which, I understand, is an old Oklahoma favorite.

[Bothrops]

You're answering a post from: Tue Jul 10, 2001 4:14 pm