Why are Irish sessions so fraught?

[benhall.1]

Nope ...


Yay!!!!!

[Cathy Wilde]

(BTW Nano, sbfluter did mention that at the old time jam she's only allowed to play strings...

'Kay, thanks. It's become one big-ass thread and, well, you know.

Whoops, I missed that. Sorry, mea culpa.

[Cathy Wilde]

Heh heh heh. There'll be more than one non-piper or fiddler there I'm sure! It's not too late, our mutual fiddler friends found very cheap flights the last two days into New York from there.

Nano, there will be plenty of floating fluters, myself included. According to our Ms. Harker, Fr. Charlie Coen's on board now, too. It's still not too late ... Get on a plane, man!!!!!

[jim stone]

I read quite a bit of the thread but couldn't make it through entirely.
So I'll just say this. American fiddle tunes (and old-time music, etc) is a whole lot simpler
that ITM, usually. I can pick up tunes on the wing at an Old Time session,
no way I can do it with ITM, typically.

Without aspersions about Old Time, ITM is a serious art form and to play it well takes considerable
mastery of the instrument, the music, the tradition. And a lot of people at sessions who are
capable of doing that want to do it with the people they generally meet with, so they are
naturally less welcoming to people who spoil the music or make it hard for them to
play the way they can. Also when people get that good, you tend to get some ego.
But also a sense that they are keeping something special and precious alive,
something few people understand. I've generally found the better the session,
the less hospitable it was. I think that's why Irish sessions are so fraught.

[MTGuru]

Jim, do I detect a new glimmer of enlightenment about sessions and about the music? Have you been attending Tucson sessions? Seriously, I'm impressed.

[jim stone]

I've thought this for quite awhile. 'The better the session, the less hospital'
is based on multiple unpleasant experiences in various sessions.

Yes, I've been attending the Tucson session.
They've even stopped telling me to shutup,
or at least they do it less often. The first time
I played with them they threatened to shoot me.
Good session.

[Mr.Gumby]

TM is a serious art form and to play it well takes considerable
mastery of the instrument, the music, the tradition. And a lot of people at sessions who are
capable of doing that want to do it with the people they generally meet with, so they are
naturally less welcoming to people who spoil the music or make it hard for them to
play the way they can. Also when people get that good, you tend to get some ego.

I don't think, relative to other music, Irish music is very complex or difficult, providing there's a commitment and a bit of effort is made.

In that context I think it's easy to understand when people who have not made that little effort and may not appear to be willing to (I don't agree with your narrow approach, I do it my own way, I am not Irish so I don't/can't/won't play it like you do. You know the standard excuses) or those who just don't have the ability, come in with a sense of entitlement they be treated as equals while they (potentially) have little to contribute, or bring down the level of enjoyment of a night of socialising and playing music.
I think it's a mistake to see this purely as 'ego' on behalf of the better players.

Imagine any other non competitive group activity, a group of artists doing a mural and one person, with a skill set quite below that of the group, turning up demanding participation on an equal footing in the project, a group of hikers joined by an unfit unskilled stranger demanding the group brings him/her on weekly hikes that are well above their skill level, at best slowing down the group and lowering their enjoyment by the pressure put on them. I am sure you can imagine a few situations you're familiar with and see how far a encouragement and nurture can be taken and where outstaying the welcome begins.

'The better the session, the less hospital'

I am sure you can see that as the skills-gap increases, more tension will arise. And why that happens.


I could say I have not seen a higher accident rate in less skilled sessions.


Ofcourse sessions of less advanced players are equally as inhospitable to skilled players (hogging attention, showing off by playing obscure tunes, you know all the lines there too I suppose) so it really is just a matter of perspective I think.

[TheSilverSpear]

People and sessions are complicated. I certainly have more fun when playing with people who are at my level rather than dragging beginners on all night. And you do get fecked off with people who won't put in the effort but think they are entitled to be included in every set and think it is their right to be playing all night. Fair enough....but....

One session I play is lead by a core group of good players. However, players who are still finding their feet regularly turn up and while they only play along on the tunes they know and don't start more than a set or two, they are good craic and are an important part of the between-tunes banter. If you act obnoxiously, you might get a bit of a cold shoulder, but as long as you have a basic understanding of social/session etiquette, we're super friendly.

Another one I occasionally attend is lead by a group of amazing players, much better than me. When I go to that session I never start a single set of tunes, sit well away from the core players (they have made it clear they want their friends around them. One night a visitor once sat in an empty space next to a regular player and got told to move), and only play along on the ones I know. There is a group of players who go to that and hide like I do. We are tolerated because it's a big space so we're not taking up space or disrupting anything. But unlike the first session, we (the players of lesser ability...but we don't suck.... we know lots of tunes and can play them solidly....but we're not about to win any All-Irelands or be asked to play on RTE, either) are pretty much ignored all night. We'll get a cursory, polite hi and that's it. I was going to this regularly for a while but then after two years, got fed up and only go one in a blue moon.

[BigDavy]

Hi SS

I enjoyed the Oran Mor session on Wednesday as well

The session I was at before coming to the Oran Mor, given the comments in this thread, would appear to be the session from hell, 5 button boxes, 3 piano boxes, 2 whistle players, 2 guitarists, mando, 3 fiddles and a snare drummer. Players at all stages from All Ireland level to rank beginners. It was great craic and fun was had by all.

BTW do you need a CITES certificate to go to the other session you were describing

David

[chansherly212]

hey, i've been lucky to find a session here in malaysia, and its the one and only one i've been to, i must say, they're a great bunch, two of them a great deal better than me (and i consider myself intermidiate) and one or two who are post-beginners.

the two who are experts are really welcoming, slowing down tunes for those who can't keep up or not playing tunes that the rest of us don't know, but every now and then, they break into a tune at 100km/h and when i try to play along, it's all good, in fact they really help the rest of us improve, giving us the sheet music, websites to go to, etc. (they even give me a chance to start sets sometimes, although i mostly let them lead.)

its true that the beginner may most likely drag the rest down if the skill gap to too big, but i think here, where irish trad musicians are few and far between, its always great to meet someone who's passionate about the same thing. i'm glad to meet great yet easy-going players.

[RudallRose]

my one big pet peeve among sessions (i've read several pages of this thread and hope i didn't miss it, but if i'm repetitive, apologies):
when the folks who have formed an, ugh, "band" opt to use the session as their rehearsal, banging out their sets and arrangements, typically to the exclusion of the others.
it's rude and obnoxious.
more than once I've packed up and headed home.
if i wish to hear what you're doing as a group all night long, i'll attend the performance.

my group (we are 3) has a steadfast rule: our tunes/arrangements/sets are not to be played at the session. period. If asked to do something someone's heard us play somewhere, we'll oblige kindly.....but never start it ourselves.

[fearfaoin]

my group (we are 3) has a steadfast rule: our tunes/arrangements/sets are not to be played at the session. period. If asked to do something someone's heard us play somewhere, we'll oblige kindly.....but never start it ourselves.

Hm. That's a good idea. I haven't seen this
happen at a session, but could easily imagine
it popping up even accidentally, when there
are several band members present.

If you're used to playing a set a certain way
in your band, you're more likely to automatically
do so in session. This rule makes you think about
it and do otherwise. Well played.

[Clarinetcat]

I went to my first "session" last Thursday...

It was very open and friendly, although by choice I mostly sat and listened.

The one or two tunes I did attempt to play with the group I did not know, so I quietly noodled on my Low D Whistle while I listened intently and watched the piper's fingers.

[MTGuru]

I went to my first "session" last Thursday...

Why the quotation marks, CC? Just curious. Was there something unexpected about it? Or perhaps just because you yourself weren't playing.

[Clarinetcat]

I went to my first "session" last Thursday...

Why the quotation marks, CC? Just curious. Was there something unexpected about it? Or perhaps just because you yourself weren't playing.

Well... honestly I guess I placed it in quotes because I'm not used to using the word alone.

I'm used to "jam session" or "recording session".

This scene is still all fairly new to me.