pancelticpiper wrote:
I wish I had the cash to invest in some of these bargains. When/if the economy turns around I could double, triple, quadruple my investment.
There's the rub; I had the same thought regarding Fender Strats on Craig's list - if I could only buy a handful of them now at these prices... in five or so years, I'd make out like a bandit. But I can't.
I also can't afford another flute right now, in spite of some great used bargains I've seen posted here. New flutes are completely out of the picture. Rather, I work harder at sounding my best on the best flute I currently own; for us non-makers, that is, after all, what's really important.
Well, I read through the thread but no one brought up this point yet so I will. In general, I would guess that less then 10% of all musical instruments sold are going to professionals. That means 90% are sold to those of us that are hobbyists.
Hobbyists tend to buy more then pros from all I've seen. (pick any hobby that also has a professional version and I think you'll find the same) Also, most pros I know buy for utility so most bang for the buck. Hobbyists buy for any number of reasons. Some to try and find that "perfect" flute; some because the lower end flutes are cheap enough so why not buy a Hall Crystal flute or a bamboo F from Erik the Flutemaker, etc.; some to just tell other hobbyists that they have a Boosey Pratten or an Rudall and Rose or whatever.
For example I know a few pro guitar players and most have had one or two guitars that they have used for years and it takes a very special instrument or a pressing need like needing to have a parlor guitar for doing some Jethro Tull during a gig or having a guitar get damaged right before a performance or something to make them buy a new guitar. I also know hobbyist guitar players that have rotated though dozens of guitars in the last year or two and won't even look at anything under $3000.
I think what that means is that 90% of the instrument market is capricious and it's tough to determine what exactly will motivate a larger percentage of sales. Lower prices may make some hobbyists think your stuff is not good enough for them to look at but higher prices may keep away a significant number of potential buyers. I think you hit the right idea of making a lower cost separate line so you can cover both categories.
Pros ( the other 10% of the market) simply don't buy enough to keep anyone in business unless they can pull hobbyists to your door.
Irish session flutes are a really small, specialty market within that so the base of potential customers is even less so I'm pretty amazed any of the flute makers out there are able to keep going or really any smaller specialized instrument makers. One of the reasons I don't really mind spending the cash when I have it.
BTW Casey, I'm working on getting some cash up to either upgrade my boxwood with new rings and a slide or have a new one made with rings an a slide, maybe in blackwood. I haven't decided which route to go yet. We'll see how things look around the end of the year or early next year, I may be putting an order in with you.
I agree with you, but would point out that, while the scale probably isn't there in the flute market, there *is* the feeling amoung many people who are pulling in a pay check that it's a bit of a social responsibility to spend a bit to help others. I didn't buy one of your flutes, although it was highly recommended by my teacher Jan Deweese (he plays on one of yours in my lessons). However, I *did* buy *a* flute only a few months back (Ormiston Pratten), and part of the reason was support. My wife and I talked about the economy and have actually decided to do things like work on the house (hiring a local contractor we know), travel a wee bit, etc. Odd as it sounds, we're only this year lucky enough to have a decent wage and the ability to put a bit in savings, and have decided to donate to charity and try to support fine people like you, either craftsmen or shop owners, while we can.
I'm not saying this as "kudos to me" but because it's not just us. We know a lot of people who feel this way. In fact, one of the things that we've noticed as almost the standard amoung our (admittedly small) set of friends, family, people we know is that this downturn has shifted focus to small and/or local. We hear about people all the time who say things like "I'd rather pay a bit more to help <whomever> than pay less and help Walmart."
When it comes to a craftsman like yourself, with a really small market to begin with, this is probably little consolation. Not sure much of this will "trickle up" to you, but it's just something I've noticed- and your post seemed almost as much about the economy in general as about the economy of flutes. Doug and others had a good point about the "flute bubble" of Titanic, et. al. as well. True also is the fact that the flute is the harshest mistress I've ever had an affair with, and one who can probably beat down many a fine musician- let alone people who hear a song and think half-heartedly "I wanna do that!"
Still, I wonder if it's possible that, while flute makers might not get rich in the long term (we know how you laugh about your big, fat paychecks!) I hope that- as much because of this economic situation as in spite of it- you continue to have a steady base that is thoughtful, loyal, and believes that paying a craftsman's price for a craftsman's job is not only acceptable, but a responsibility.
Cheers
John Metta
Almost able to play a whole tune on his Ormiston Pratten
Tell us something.: I'm a fiddler and, latterly, a fluter. I love the flute. I wish I'd always played it. I love the whistle as well. I'm blessed in having really lovely instruments for all of my musical interests.
Location: Unimportant island off the great mainland of Europe
I have too many flutes and whistles. I would like to sell them but haven't because it seems like such a big pain to sell things. I have even thought about giving some of them away but haven't done it. It would have nothing to do with the economy for me. I just have too many things and want to have less. I think there is a trend in that area as well. The 100 things challenge (something I'm not doing, by the way) or people who just want to get out of the hyper consumerism of our society (that one I am interested in). Oddly, in my attempts to do this, I've done a lot of shopping lately. Seeking out people who make things by hand, and trying to learn a few things myself. Anyway, reducing one's inventory of stuff could also be a trend affecting the quantity of instruments for sale.
~ Diane
Flutes: Tipple D and E flutes and a Casey Burns Boxwood Rudall D flute
Whistles: Jerry Freeman Tweaked D Blackbird
I've got a Pakistani flute I've thought about posting here, but I'm not sure it would be worth trying to sell in any economy. It looks nice enough, but isn't a great player. It's kinda airy and unfocused, and the tuning slide has to be pulled way out to get it in tune.
Tell us something.: I restore 19th century flutes, specializing in Rudall & Rose, and early American flutes. I occasionally make new flutes. Been at it for about 15 years.
Thomaston wrote:I've got a Pakistani flute I've thought about posting here, but I'm not sure it would be worth trying to sell in any economy. It looks nice enough, but isn't a great player. It's kinda airy and unfocused, and the tuning slide has to be pulled way out to get it in tune.
Best to just convert it to a "flute lamp" and sell it on eBay...
"I love the flute because it's the one instrument in the world where you can feel your own breath. I can feel my breath with my fingers. It's as if I'm speaking from my soul..."
Michael Flatley
Thomaston wrote:I've got a Pakistani flute I've thought about posting here, but I'm not sure it would be worth trying to sell in any economy. It looks nice enough, but isn't a great player. It's kinda airy and unfocused, and the tuning slide has to be pulled way out to get it in tune.
Best to just convert it to a "flute lamp" and sell it on eBay...
That's actually not a bad idea!
Frankly, I bought the flute for $100, and it came with a nice case. My reasoning for buying it, even though I knew it was a mediocre Pakistani flute, was that it was a wall ornament and nice case for $100, which isn't too bad if you look at it that way. Maybe I'm just rationalizing.
Tell us something.: Playing Scottish and Irish music in California for 45 years. These days many discussions are migrating to Facebook but I prefer the online chat forum format.
Jim_B1 wrote:
I would guess that less than 10% of all musical instruments sold are going to professionals. That means 90% are sold to those of us that are hobbyists.
I know a few pro guitar players and most have had one or two guitars that they have used for years... I also know hobbyist guitar players that have rotated though dozens of guitars in the last year or two and won't even look at anything under $3000.
I think what that means is that 90% of the instrument market is capricious...
A very good thoughtful post there.
I work with several pro jazz guys and what you say is bang on: most have their "axe" that they've been playing nearly their whole professional life (a vintage Selmer Mark VI, a vintage Powell, etc).
But then there are a few pros like Rob Verdi:
(For you reed men out there: can you identify the horn Rob is holding? It's the rarest of the rare, that and his contrabass.)
Richard Cook c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
That's actually not a bad idea!
