What do you make of this? Fentum? Marked Wylde?

[Thalatta]

I meant back in the 1850s. There may well have been Irish music, but it's unlikely that someone in England who bought an English flute, like a Fentum, would have played Irish trad tunes! However, they may well have played trad tunes like Roslin Castle, played by Nicholson no?

[RudallRose]

jem
your rudall has a sharp F#?
that's odd....most are flat and require venting with the short-F key.

[jemtheflute]

No, David - re-read my previous and note the strategically and correctly placed comma! (Though I admit, read carelessly one might easily so misinterpret....) The F# is flat and needs venting as per usual on mid C19th flutes, which I'm in the habit of doing as I have quite often written here before.

@ Shane - it is worth remembering that in much of both the C18th and C19th the flute in a way had a similar status to the guitar today - it was the everyman instrument. That is one of the reasons for the persistence of old- style simple system flutes long after most professional players had switched to Bohm type instruments. And so the flute owning and playing public would likely have used their old-fashioned flutes in much the same way as the later C20th's amateur guitar owners - played the popular music of the day. That said, a flute of the class and probable original cost of your new acquisition would not have been an "everyman" flute. The answer to your question probably lies in looking at sheet music published for the flute in the mid C19th.

[RudallRose]

slightly sharp A, C# & F# and low E need key-venting

uh...no.

the comma is properly placed within the clause it constructs. What's improper in this sentence is the use of the ampersand (&).....that dictates that the clause is part of what's before it (dependent) and, with the use of "and" you've separated the low E as being the only thing needing venting.
You've also misplaced the &.

properly written:
"slightly sharp A, and the C#, F# and low E need (key) venting"

note, too, the removal of the hyphen as it's not a modifier.
And "key" isn't really needed since it's redundant. What else would you vent it with?

so.....
yes, Jem.... i didn't need to reread it....i had it right the first time.

either way....nice to know your flute falls within the norm.

[Rob Sharer]

{sung to the tune of "Yesterday"}:

Pedantry....
Splitting hairs just bores the t*ts off me
This ain't half the Board it used to be
And all because...of pedantreee

Mmm mm mm mm mm....Mm Mm!





Sir Rob

[jemtheflute]

Thank you both.

[Rob Sharer]

Just 'avin' a larf.



Rob

[an seanduine]

@Thalatta said

Anyone know for what kind of music - or for what purpose (band/personal pleasure/orchestra) - would someone have bought one of these flutes in their day (19th century)? While I play an Irish jig or a reel, I often wonder what these flutes originally played? Probably not ONLY classical music...?

I would second what Jem has said. From my own family's history, perhaps a little later than the 1850's referenced, the simple system flutes were a ready source of family entertainment. Of course this was in America, and not England, but my Grandfather learned the flute on simple system instruments and played in Fife & Drum Bands in Maine during the 1870's and 1880's. Later, after migrating to the West Coast, as a young married man, he would bring home popular sheet music of the day and along with my Grandmother on piano would play duets, alternately singing and playing along with the children as family entertainment. This was the family tradition until the 'cathedral' style radio supplanted it in the 1920's.

Bob

[Thalatta]

Interesting. Folk tunes then. I often wondered. I'm fascinated by the idea that these flutes have been lying around for 150 years; that's two lifetimes, and many owners, and so many kinds of music. Lying around.... Where???

I wonder too, if anyone buys simple system flutes from modern makers for anything other than Irish, Breton or other Celtic trad music? Presumably nobody buys them for classical music, since the Boehm is much better suited - or so I believe - or perhaps you can use a nice simple system flute for Baroque music, although it might be too loud.

[Denny]

http://www.chrisnorman.com/

[LorenzoFlute]

I'll precede Jem in mentioning Malo Carvou and Adrianne Greenbaum...

[jemtheflute]

I think that in general those of the Period Instrument/Historically Informed Performance persuasion who play early-mid C19th repertory tend to use period flutes. After all, there are plenty of them extant, unlike true Baroque traversi, so there is not the demand on makers from that quarter that there is for Baroque flutes and for flutes for ITM. Also there is not as yet quite such a tendency to play mid-Romantic material in period style as there is for Baroque and Classical era music. Besides, when the Period specialists do venture to, say Verdi (e.g. John Elliot Gardiner's recording of the Verdi Req), Bohm flutes were already in use and are perfectly "authentic". Not much point as a "period" specialist in using repros when originals (in more or less any pitch standard and design variation you might want) are there to be had (though maybe at a cost)...... the quantity of good quality, playable survivals from the C17th-C18th is rather less, so there is a point (and a market) in reproductions. It is probably a mid-way situation for Classical era (e.g. 4-key) flutes - quite a lot of survivals, but also something of a market in repros.

Lorenzo, so far as I know Adrianne uses period simple system flutes. Her (modern) wooden Bohm flute is a Powell. Dunno about Malo Carvou - is he a classical player at all????? I think Brian Berryman, like Chris Norman, uses originals too.

Back to Shane's query; no, I don't think that what we would recognise as "folk" or traditional music was what amateur C19th players mostly played (though obviously there were folk musicians out there playing these instruments too). Sure, classicalised arrangements of traditional material (like Nicholson's) were very popular, but so were the instrumental equivalents of parlour songs and most especially arrangements and sets of variations on popular music of the time, e.g. opera arias etc. As I said before, the thing to do would be to have a look at sheet music from the period, or at the catalogues of music publishers. This stuff was the equivalent of modern day "singles" recordings and the printing of sheet music for those singles.

[RudallRose]

Pedantry....
Splitting hairs just bores the t*ts off me

yes....wellllll......precisely why you'd never make it in my business, where precision is paramount.

no worries....jest havin a larf.

assuredly, i'll be the first to quote your little song should any of you slip.



it's almost as if Andrew's never left us.

[LorenzoFlute]

Jem, I believe he asked for anything other than "celtic" trad music on simple system flutes (I missed the "made by modern maker" part), not only classical music. Malo and Adrianne fall into this category...

[Rob Sharer]

Pedantry....
Splitting hairs just bores the t*ts off me

yes....wellllll......precisely why you'd never make it in my business, where precision is paramount.

And just what business might that be?



Rob