Reviol Cast Bore Flute

[jim stone]

Julia Delaney wrote:
$350 for my Reviol keyless in D. It's a wooden flute with a poured Delrin liner. Don't ask me how he does it. It plays very nicely, is in tune, and is trouble free. The new price is $450 + shipping from New Zealand. I will include shipping anywhere on the planet. Reviol's flutes are very similar to Martin Doyle's flutes.

http://www.reviol.co.nz/HTML/CastBoreFlutes.html

Image


For obvious reasons I'm very interested in the idea that these are similar to M Doyle's flutes. Some similarities are visually
plain. How does the sound of the flutes compare? Anyone?

Julia's flute was sold, by the way.

[Julia Delaney]

Doyle flutes are superior. This should come as no surprise.

[Sillydill]

Hey Jim,

I too thought that the Doyle and Reviol designs were similar. BUT THEY ARE NOT!

I'm rather a minimalist and I'm drawn to the simplistic design of these two flutes.

I've only had one of each so my opinion is based upon a very limited sample.

Doyle - All around good flute. My impression was "If I could only have one flute, this would be it!" It didn't really excel in any area, just very good at everything.

Reviol - Most powerful Rudall based flute I've ever played! But what I found so endearing was the clarity with which the flute spoke and the response that made ornamentation sound crisp.

BTW: I'm getting the Reviol Cast-Bore from Julia Delaney!

[m31]

While I can see that this bore design would suffer considerably less from drying and re-hydration cycles, would it not still be subject to the eventual compression stresses as the wood dries out over time, much like a tuning slide or barrel?

[celticmodes]

Reviol discussed this at some point in a prior post. He borrowed the technique from repairing bassoons I think it was. He said he hadn't had any problems historically with the procedure. I have the maple one and it's sealed with lacquer or poly. I'm not sure how malleable the resin is...it might bend slightly as the wood shrinks along the grain. Don't know. I think it would take a long time to get to that point.

I keep my high end Reviol at about 70% humidity but this other one stays out on the stand all the time. I'm a little ashamed to admit that I don't clean it that often. I open it and shake it out when I'm done and let it air dry. Bad fluter!

For me, the power of the flute, the crispness and clarity of those beautiful high notes, the low maintenance, and the fact that I can practice on a cheap flute made withe the same drill/reamers as my expensive one make it a really good pick up flute for me. Oh and I can just throw it in the car and take it to a session without worrying. It's not "my precioussssss".

[Hup]

I've been playing one of these for about a year. It's the only "Irish" flute I've
played regularly, so I don't know whether it's good or bad. It has a beautiful, big second
octave - sweet sounding. But in the low register to me it sounds too breathy
on D and E. This may be due to my lack of skill - I'm not sure. It doesn't have
the same power on these notes as the Grinter or Olwell I often hear at my local
session. I have played on Terry McGee's personal flute - which he describes as
'middle of the road' and it also seemed a bit weak down there. Comments?

[Denny]

Have the Grinter and/or Olwell owners have a go at yer flute.
They might let ya try theirs...

[Hup]

Quite right Denny. One of those guys tried out the Reviol and sounded good,
except for the low end. I was too chickens*** to ask if I could have a go on the Grinter.

[talasiga]

Doyle flutes are superior. This should come as no surprise.

I am surprised by your "avatar":-

[LorenzoFlute]

Hup, I'm sure the problem is your embouchure. If the guy who played your flute couldn't get it either (and he's not a very skilled player, even if decent), he's probably not used to your flute. I've never tried a modern flute whose low end is weak. It could happen with a vintage flute though, or with a modern flute that leaks somewhere...
And I read somewhere Terry plays one of his first flutes, which may not be beginner friendly like his later models.

[Feadoggie]

While I can see that this bore design would suffer considerably less from drying and re-hydration cycles, would it not still be subject to the eventual compression stresses as the wood dries out over time, much like a tuning slide or barrel?

I had imagined the same and said so in an earlier thread, as celticmodes pointed out. Maurice was kind enough to offer his thoughts on the subject and describe a bit of his process at that time. Here's what he wrote.

Hello, one of my customers pointed me in the direction of this topic on the Chiff and Fipple Forum and I thought I write a few lines about my Cast Bore Flutes...

The Process is not new and I won't claim that I am the first instrument maker who is using this technique.
In my days working for W.Schreiber, making Bassoons I came across this process of casting the bore into a timber body first.
When I started working there, the process was well established and it seems that they did this already for a good few years. I tried to contact them to get more information about that...

The Bassoons made with this technique show no problems at all regarding shrinkage and cracking. One of the advantages of this technique is that timber can be used that is more forgiving and can cope a bit better with shrinkage and the likes. However, even when used with African Blackwood I haven't seen any cracks appearing because of the lining. Buffet-Crampon Oboes are done the same way and the bodies are done that way to keep the dimensions stable, a far more crucial subject with Oboes than with flutes, the diameter is a lot smaller and shrinkage would have a higher percentage of the bore diameter.

I started to make plans for this style flute, after a friend of mine showed me her Polymer flute with keywork. The keywork wasn't the greatest and the sheer weight of the flute was taking all the fun out of playing...I thought there must be a way to get around this and I the first thing that popped into my mind was the techique that I know too well from my Bassoon making days...

To sum up:
The advantages are:
A polymer flute that is light, looks like a wooden flute (because it is a wooden flute...), can be made easily, can be made from less expensive and locally available timber, can use very good looking timbers that aren't usually used for flutes because it's too porous, too light, to coarse...etc...,
can be treated like a polymer flute with no need for the oiling or other maintenance that is necessary for a real wooden flute without cast bore...

I hope that answered a few of the questions that might arise...
If you have more questions, I am glad to answer them, time permitting...

All the best,
Maurice Reviol
http://www.reviol.co.nz

The entire thread can be read here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=68518

[celticmodes]

But in the low register to me it sounds too breathy
on D and E.

I can't get a really good low E on it - too breathy. Low D is clearer but not loud.

[jim stone]

Well are these rudall designs? That might hav something to do with it, as rudalls
sometimes have to be blown a special way to get the bottom notes.

[keithsandra]

Jim: What special way do Rudall's have to be played to get the botom notes?

Thanks,

K.

[jim stone]

My understanding is that many Rudalls have to be rolled out when playing the bottom,
and a focused air stream directed into the flute. Many modern rudall copies
have been tweaked to eliminate the need, but not all. I am still locked
in combat with the Byrne. Sometimes the D is there, sometime less so.
Otherwise I think it is the most beautiful flute I know.