Whistles for potential bag pipers
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AnnaDMartinez
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Things are getting interesting here. We've got six at HIGH risk kids at Sturgis High School who want to learn bagpiping. We're in the process of applying for a grant to get them practice chanters and a teacher and music, but while we're all waiting, we decided to get them B flat whistles, so they can get started learning the pipers grip, etc. Seems to be another good beginning for the Whistle Empowerment Project. I just learned to play a load of bagpipe tunes on the whistle...hehehe!
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AaronMalcomb
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The only issue with that is they will have to unlearn their whistle technique as piping is closed fingered not to mention the low G and high A holes. Though whistles are more fun than the alternative, which would be to cut notches in a wooden dowel for the finger holes and teach them canntaireachd, just be prepared for those issues.
Otherwise it's great that piping is being offered to high risk students. Piping is life-long pursuit and is better than smoking meth or shoplifting. Good on ya!
Cheers,
Aaron
Otherwise it's great that piping is being offered to high risk students. Piping is life-long pursuit and is better than smoking meth or shoplifting. Good on ya!
Cheers,
Aaron
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AaronMalcomb
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AnnaDMartinez
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Well, here is SOUTH Dakota. we simply don't have a lot of resources and very little money. Wanna come and help out? These kids need the gratification of making some noise, and feeling like they are making some progress NOW, hence the decision for whistles. Now anybody know anybody who can teach these kids once we get them practive chanters? The one bagpiper we know of in West River got shipped out with his National Guard Unit! P.S. This isn't a school district project, just Anna and her Whistle Empowerment Project and the brand spankin' new St. Andrews Society of the Black Hills. We're all just learning as we go. Other than that, I have no idea what you were talking about in your post! Snerk!
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Roger O'Keeffe
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Keep on truckin' Anna, you seem to be doing great work against the odds.
Met a teacher who works with disadvantaged schools in Dublin at the weekend, and enjoyed seeing and hearing various dancing and music performances which they put on for a major meeting of heads of national education systems in the OECD.
Met a teacher who works with disadvantaged schools in Dublin at the weekend, and enjoyed seeing and hearing various dancing and music performances which they put on for a major meeting of heads of national education systems in the OECD.
An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
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Nanohedron
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Oh, yeah: also a mod here, not a spammer. A matter of opinion, perhaps. - Location: Lefse country
Anna, I think it's great that the kids want to play the Highland pipes! I don't play them myself, but if you can't yet find tutors in the flesh, the College of Piping has a number of publications out there that could be a lot of help. Canntaireachd is a vocal form of "notation", or mnemonics, that has been in use since before the advent of written music, and, though a bit daunting at first, is supposed to be actually easier to use and communicate once it's learned.
I believe that these tutorials are all written by Seumas ManNeill. The only tutor of his that I have covers canntaireachd (pron. konn' tuh rakhd, I believe), and it is dedicated to the classical form of piping, piobaireachd (peeb'rakhd). I was impressed by the late Mr. MacNeill's approach: very encouraging and friendly, and goes a long way in demystifying the art.
Once I get my smallpipes going I plan to have a go, myself...
Anyway, if you care to send a PM, maybe I could help you figure out how to get these books. At present I don't know if they are available online.
Anyone out there w/ books to donate to a good cause?
N, go for it!
I believe that these tutorials are all written by Seumas ManNeill. The only tutor of his that I have covers canntaireachd (pron. konn' tuh rakhd, I believe), and it is dedicated to the classical form of piping, piobaireachd (peeb'rakhd). I was impressed by the late Mr. MacNeill's approach: very encouraging and friendly, and goes a long way in demystifying the art.
Once I get my smallpipes going I plan to have a go, myself...
Anyway, if you care to send a PM, maybe I could help you figure out how to get these books. At present I don't know if they are available online.
Anyone out there w/ books to donate to a good cause?
N, go for it!
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AaronMalcomb
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North Dakota isn't any further ahead in piping than South Dakota if not further behind. Most of my piping experience has been gathered out of state or country.
Though the whistle fingering isn't entirely different from Great Highland Bagpipe (GHB), it's different enough. The low G and High A refer to extra holes on the GHB.
Whereas the whistles finger holes are o0o o0o the GHB finger holes are ooo o000 plus one on the back covered by the top-hand thumb. The thumb is for the high A and the last hole, covered by the pinky, is the low G.
As for closed fingering, on the whistle the top hand notes are played with the bottom hand fingers off of the whistle (open fingered) whereas on GHB the the top-hand notes are played while three of the bottom hand fingers are left down (closed fingered).
For source books I would suggest the Piping Centre tutor which comes with a cd-rom. The Colleg of Piping is just as good but the visuals in the cd-rom are an extra advantage. When they get practice chanters the book Rhythmic Fingerwork by Jim McGillivray is crucial to developing proper technique. Until then you can be teaching them music theory.
Where to get the stuff I'm talking about? A great source is http://www.tartantown.com/ for anything piping related. Terry Lee, who runs the business, runs a world class piping program with the Simon Fraser University Pipe Band and the Robert Malcolm Memorial system of juvenile bands. Any of SFUs videos and CDs are great for the kids to watch to learn and enjoy. Terry also sells the best in bagpipes and supplies. Get in touch him and tell him about your project. Also get in touch with his brother Jack or Robert MacNeil who are managers and instructors. Go to the band's website at http://www.sfupipeband.com/ for more information. They can give you a lot of good advice.
That's the best help I can give. Right now my work and pipe band responsibilities keep me from actually going to Deadwood. But feel free to send me private messages or email with more questions.
Cheers,
Aaron
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AaronMalcomb on 2003-02-11 22:52 ]</font>
Though the whistle fingering isn't entirely different from Great Highland Bagpipe (GHB), it's different enough. The low G and High A refer to extra holes on the GHB.
Whereas the whistles finger holes are o0o o0o the GHB finger holes are ooo o000 plus one on the back covered by the top-hand thumb. The thumb is for the high A and the last hole, covered by the pinky, is the low G.
As for closed fingering, on the whistle the top hand notes are played with the bottom hand fingers off of the whistle (open fingered) whereas on GHB the the top-hand notes are played while three of the bottom hand fingers are left down (closed fingered).
For source books I would suggest the Piping Centre tutor which comes with a cd-rom. The Colleg of Piping is just as good but the visuals in the cd-rom are an extra advantage. When they get practice chanters the book Rhythmic Fingerwork by Jim McGillivray is crucial to developing proper technique. Until then you can be teaching them music theory.
Where to get the stuff I'm talking about? A great source is http://www.tartantown.com/ for anything piping related. Terry Lee, who runs the business, runs a world class piping program with the Simon Fraser University Pipe Band and the Robert Malcolm Memorial system of juvenile bands. Any of SFUs videos and CDs are great for the kids to watch to learn and enjoy. Terry also sells the best in bagpipes and supplies. Get in touch him and tell him about your project. Also get in touch with his brother Jack or Robert MacNeil who are managers and instructors. Go to the band's website at http://www.sfupipeband.com/ for more information. They can give you a lot of good advice.
That's the best help I can give. Right now my work and pipe band responsibilities keep me from actually going to Deadwood. But feel free to send me private messages or email with more questions.
Cheers,
Aaron
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AaronMalcomb on 2003-02-11 22:52 ]</font>
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Jerry Freeman
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AnnaDMartinez
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Anna-
Check here: http://www.bagpipers.com/unitedstates/southdakota.html for a listing of about half a dozen pipers in South Dakota.
Odds are good that one of them will konw someone close to you. Not promising they will actually help, of course, but pipers are a lot like whistlers. They like to perpetuate their skills.
Learning piping from a book is possible, but there is no substitute for a real teacher. Much of playing the bagpipes is dependant on learning to do it right. And when it comes to the full pipes, you will need someone to teach the kids to adjust reeds and such. No written information can compare with that. None.
Too bad there isn't a mass-produced whistle like Sandy Jasper's bagpipe-scale whistle. That would be handy. Please note, however, that the usual Pakistani practice chanters are only about $20 each, maybe less if you look carefully. That is about twice what a Generation Bb costs, so I am not sure you are saving much by giving them whistles to start with. Lots of bagpipe teachers will know where to buy these in bulk. The quality is about what you'd expect from Pakistan - functional, acceptable for beginners, but not the equal of a "good" chanter. Still, many pipers will play these for years before they get a blackwood or Polypenco chanter. And I think the Pakistani PC reeds are the best I have played. Go figure.
Good luck.
-Patrick
Check here: http://www.bagpipers.com/unitedstates/southdakota.html for a listing of about half a dozen pipers in South Dakota.
Odds are good that one of them will konw someone close to you. Not promising they will actually help, of course, but pipers are a lot like whistlers. They like to perpetuate their skills.
Learning piping from a book is possible, but there is no substitute for a real teacher. Much of playing the bagpipes is dependant on learning to do it right. And when it comes to the full pipes, you will need someone to teach the kids to adjust reeds and such. No written information can compare with that. None.
Too bad there isn't a mass-produced whistle like Sandy Jasper's bagpipe-scale whistle. That would be handy. Please note, however, that the usual Pakistani practice chanters are only about $20 each, maybe less if you look carefully. That is about twice what a Generation Bb costs, so I am not sure you are saving much by giving them whistles to start with. Lots of bagpipe teachers will know where to buy these in bulk. The quality is about what you'd expect from Pakistan - functional, acceptable for beginners, but not the equal of a "good" chanter. Still, many pipers will play these for years before they get a blackwood or Polypenco chanter. And I think the Pakistani PC reeds are the best I have played. Go figure.
Good luck.
-Patrick
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Tom_Gaul
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Anna, you might be interested in this site.
http://www.bagpipesatbest.com/
It has MIDI files for perhaps over a thousand bagpipe tunes!
It must be someone's lifetime work!
Best wishes, Tom
Edited to correct site above
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tom_Gaul on 2003-02-14 23:26 ]</font>
http://www.bagpipesatbest.com/
It has MIDI files for perhaps over a thousand bagpipe tunes!
It must be someone's lifetime work!
Best wishes, Tom
Edited to correct site above
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tom_Gaul on 2003-02-14 23:26 ]</font>
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AnnaDMartinez
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Speaking from more than 40 years of experience, I don't think it is possible to learn to play bagpipe music properly without instruction and supervision by a qualified teacher.
I used the College of Piping material as a basis for primary instruction, and it is a very good supplemental resource for an instructor, but definitely not a substitute for one. Some of my students became really excellent pipers and won individucal competitions adjudicated by top Scottish judges (Bob Hardie, John McLellan and Donald Shaw Ramsay come to mind), so I think my opinions on this subject, at least, are sound.
That's not what Anna and the students want to hear, but (to quote the auld Scots saying)
"Facts are chiels that winnae ding!"
Aside from the fact that the chanter has 8 holes,(like a recorder) instead of the whistle's 6, there are also some important fingering differences, as others have previously noted. This means that most pipe tunes cannot be played on a whistle whithout transposing they key to make use of the whistle's second octave. Result: the student who learns a pipe tune on the whistle is going to have to "unlearn" not only his basic fingering habits, but also the way the tune played on the practice chanter.
The brain resists changing automatic motion sequences, so it far better to not learn anything about fingering the practice chanter than to learn the wrong way.
Even when properly taught, students need constant supervision so that they do not slip into bad habits without realizing it.
As far as "piper fingering" is concerned, this only involves the right hand and is done so that the little finger can cover the
low "G" hole. I never knew any student to have any problem learning this. On the other hand, the top hand notes are closed with the fleshy part of the finger tip, as on any other woodwind.
Finally, forget "cantareachd". This was the vocal method of teaching used in the Highlands hundreds of years ago before printed music was available. It was used to teach piobaireachd (pibroch), the "classical" music of the bagpipe and is of interest only to musical historians. I have competed in pibroch competions and was president of the Pibroch Society of Northern California years ago and have never met anybody who had any knowledge of it. Certainly, it has been obsolete since musical notation for playing pibroch was devised and the last of the alumni of MacCrimmon's school of piping at Boreraig on Sky passed on to Tir nan Og, the Celtic paradise.
How to get an instructor in South Dakota?
I would suggest taking a look at Bob Dunsire's Bagping website. It contains directories for about everything you could want to know about the subject, pipe bands, pipers for hire, & etc. You may be able to put a "Help Wanted" posting on it. You might also take a classified ad in The Highlander magazine.
("Google"will give you the websites.)
If there is enough interest to generate sufficient income to live on (perhaps with a supplemental job), a qualified young piper might be lured to S.Dakota too. There is/was a Scottish publication called The Piping Times you might try. I expect some Scot might think it a treat to live in the Wild West for a couple of years if he could support himself.
Mal
I used the College of Piping material as a basis for primary instruction, and it is a very good supplemental resource for an instructor, but definitely not a substitute for one. Some of my students became really excellent pipers and won individucal competitions adjudicated by top Scottish judges (Bob Hardie, John McLellan and Donald Shaw Ramsay come to mind), so I think my opinions on this subject, at least, are sound.
That's not what Anna and the students want to hear, but (to quote the auld Scots saying)
"Facts are chiels that winnae ding!"
Aside from the fact that the chanter has 8 holes,(like a recorder) instead of the whistle's 6, there are also some important fingering differences, as others have previously noted. This means that most pipe tunes cannot be played on a whistle whithout transposing they key to make use of the whistle's second octave. Result: the student who learns a pipe tune on the whistle is going to have to "unlearn" not only his basic fingering habits, but also the way the tune played on the practice chanter.
The brain resists changing automatic motion sequences, so it far better to not learn anything about fingering the practice chanter than to learn the wrong way.
Even when properly taught, students need constant supervision so that they do not slip into bad habits without realizing it.
As far as "piper fingering" is concerned, this only involves the right hand and is done so that the little finger can cover the
low "G" hole. I never knew any student to have any problem learning this. On the other hand, the top hand notes are closed with the fleshy part of the finger tip, as on any other woodwind.
Finally, forget "cantareachd". This was the vocal method of teaching used in the Highlands hundreds of years ago before printed music was available. It was used to teach piobaireachd (pibroch), the "classical" music of the bagpipe and is of interest only to musical historians. I have competed in pibroch competions and was president of the Pibroch Society of Northern California years ago and have never met anybody who had any knowledge of it. Certainly, it has been obsolete since musical notation for playing pibroch was devised and the last of the alumni of MacCrimmon's school of piping at Boreraig on Sky passed on to Tir nan Og, the Celtic paradise.
How to get an instructor in South Dakota?
I would suggest taking a look at Bob Dunsire's Bagping website. It contains directories for about everything you could want to know about the subject, pipe bands, pipers for hire, & etc. You may be able to put a "Help Wanted" posting on it. You might also take a classified ad in The Highlander magazine.
("Google"will give you the websites.)
If there is enough interest to generate sufficient income to live on (perhaps with a supplemental job), a qualified young piper might be lured to S.Dakota too. There is/was a Scottish publication called The Piping Times you might try. I expect some Scot might think it a treat to live in the Wild West for a couple of years if he could support himself.
Mal
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AnnaDMartinez
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