M&E Flutes- Something to Consider.

[psychodonald]

I recently decided to purchase an 8 key M&E Flute after reading all of the reviews (well not necessarily all of them, but most) on Chiff and Fipple. The comments were very helpful as I had several really interesting choices to select from (other makers). I was fortunate to discover that there are actually two sites for Michael Cronnelly and M&E Flutes. If you are interested in what I consider to be a good deal currently, perhaps even a great deal, you might take a look at his Ireland site as he currently has a sale ongoing. As I was about to point out, he has two sites, one for the USA and the Ireland site. On the USA site there is no mention of the sale.

At any rate, I contacted Mr. Cronnally and I acquired his last Ebonite 8 keyed flute. He did mention to me in an email that he didn't know when he might be able to obtain more Ebonite (a concern). The flute is currently in the mail, but I might mention that the price was excellent. An additional factor was the falling value of the Euro, that also has helped a small amount (the Euro has tumbled in value quite a bit since about the first of the year). It looks like a really great deal to me and I felt that I should pass on my good fortune to those who might be interested. It sounds as though he still has other flutes in various configurations including wood and delrin, keyed and keyless and the sale is on-going until he is sold out.

[Akiba]

just looked up the sale on the UK site--an 8-key for 500 euros

[Jayhawk]

That's a great price. I still love my ebonite M&E.

Eric

[psychodonald]

Yeah, I know, it blew me away to when I saw the price. I feel lucky to have gotten the Ebonite and have been looking at the threads regarding Ebonite on this site. It's nice to have available to the public, an 8 keyed flute that is affordable, and most think is well made and sounds very nice as to boot.

[eilam]

i recently got one as well......it's great for the price.......the low C# and C were too stiff to really use and i removed them, but i'm sure the spring can be tweaked a bit to be lighter?
can't say that i like one over the other (PVC ebonite), but it's a great flute to have around ready to play.

[Elvellon]

OK guys. I have an M&E myself (keyless). But see this discussion at a Russian forum, translated:
A: The system is very uncomfortable. People say that this flute is worth its price, no more and no less. But this kind of quality is below my expectations. The keys are stiff (can be fixed though) and their shape is ucomfortable which will affect speed. Sounds good though .
Me: I've heard, too, that the keys are uncomfortable and the flute is heavy. Though if it's worth its 850 E, how about now when it's 500?
B: Just visited a maker that tuned most keys. Take note. Now it sounds excellent but out of tune with itself. I'll have to either recut it or visit Michael.
C: [What was the problem?]
B: 1: G# is stiff. 2. Long F works badly. 3. Low C just doesn't work. 4. Some keys are out of tune. I've notified the maker, he says he'll return the money for the flute and a local repair (?). I'll think about it.
C: [!!!]
A: I don't know if it's true, but I had a feeling all along that the maker was biased (?) against a Russian buyer when selling a flute to . The photos look better. It's not a burger that looks good on photos and is crap when you buy it.
C: Oh man, the kind of things you write about M&E.

[psychodonald]

Roman: your translation from the Russian forum kind of puts some concern in me. I have to admit that my experience in life has taught me that you get just about what it is that you pay for and that bargins are not usually bargins at all. I hope to be surprised when I get my new M&E Flute, for the good. I'm going with "half full" rather than "half empty" concept this time around. As I read the posts, it seems that the majority of folks really like their M&E Flutes, can so many be wrong? None the less, I will be forthright and honest with my experience regarding my new M&E Flute when it arrives, which ought to be in the next few days--I'll let you know, if you are interested? Don.

[Elvellon]

As this is turning into an 'honest experiences' thread , I'll post mine.
I've never played another flute, so I don't know about playability, but I can get a traditional sound out of it, including a good low D. Another player having a German XIX century flute says that M&E's second octave is more difficult. A whistler that played Boehm some years ago says that M&E sounds better than every flute that he's ever heard (not that there's a lot of Grinters and McGees in Russia).
The M&E is indeed heavy . Mine looks possibly used, with some scratches, glue (?) marks and some uneven hole edges.
Can't comment on the keys.
Anyway, it's sturdy and sounds good.

[Jayhawk]

I've owned 2 (6 key PVC and 8 key ebonite) and played 4-5 other M&Es (both original and R&R styles), and they've all been consistent in my experience...a little rough around the edges (scratches, tight springs from time to time...they do loosen up with use), great sounding, and all the R&R models tuned similarly (like an older flute, slightly flat F#, easy to go sharp on A, etc.). Like I said earlier, I love mine, and have no complaints (except the low C is hard to push...but slowly getting easier with use).

I wonder if the maker who "tuned" the M&E tried to equal out all the notes which could put the flute out of tune with itself...any maker that "tunes" a flute and then gives you a less in tune instrument has done something wrong.

Anyway, I have played flutes by most of the biggies (Olwell, Grinter, McGee, Burns, Seery, and others I can't recall this early in the morning), and I wouldn't trade my M&E for any of them. Maybe I'm just easy (I've rarely met a flute I didn't like), but I think M&E has a similar issue to many other flutes that are lower in cost...the players expect the flute to play itself because they're new (which is why they bought a lower cost flute) and don't realize flute is simply not easy and the sound improves as the player improves.

Eric

[eilam]

my experience is like eric's.
have many "great" flutes.....yet would always have my M&E assembled and ready.
i always take it with me, and love the way it plays. also, i can't think of a better flute for the price.
i have had other Delrin flutes, and liked them, but tone wise, the M&E has that dark woodsy tone.

[Julia Delaney]

Astounding: I have played flutes by most of the biggies (Olwell, Grinter, McGee, Burns, Seery, and ... I wouldn't trade my M&E for any of them.

Frankly this argues more for a lack of development than for anything to do with the flutes. No need to worry though. I doubt that anybody would trade an Olwell or a Grinter for your M&E... or even for three of them.

[Jayhawk]

Astounding: I have played flutes by most of the biggies (Olwell, Grinter, McGee, Burns, Seery, and ... I wouldn't trade my M&E for any of them.

Frankly this argues more for a lack of development than for anything to do with the flutes. No need to worry though. I doubt that anybody would trade an Olwell or a Grinter for your M&E... or even for three of them.

Did I touch a nerve or something?

I fail to see how it's astounding...I've heard phenomenal music by great musicians whose instruments feature rubber bands and tape to make them playable. As long as a flute is decent, I really think the player is so much more important than the flute.

You are right, though, that no one suggested trading their Olwells or Grinters for my M&E, but the owners of those flutes (as well as an ebonite Chappelle) were all impressed with the M&E's sound (and to my ear, sitting there with them, they didn't sound any different on their own flutes compared to the M&E...they sounded like themselves). There could be no question about the development of several of these players...

As for my development, or lack thereof, feel free to discuss it with me over a pint at my local session if you're ever in KC...I'm always looking to learn from good players, but prefer to do so in person - you learn so much more that way.

Eric

[pipersgrip]

Astounding: I have played flutes by most of the biggies (Olwell, Grinter, McGee, Burns, Seery, and ... I wouldn't trade my M&E for any of them.

Frankly this argues more for a lack of development than for anything to do with the flutes. No need to worry though. I doubt that anybody would trade an Olwell or a Grinter for your M&E... or even for three of them.

Did I touch a nerve or something?

I fail to see how it's astounding...I've heard phenomenal music by great musicians whose instruments feature rubber bands and tape to make them playable. As long as a flute is decent, I really think the player is so much more important than the flute.

You are right, though, that no one suggested trading their Olwells or Grinters for my M&E, but the owners of those flutes (as well as an ebonite Chappelle) were all impressed with the M&E's sound (and to my ear, sitting there with them, they didn't sound any different on their own flutes compared to the M&E...they sounded like themselves). There could be no question about the development of several of these players...

As for my development, or lack thereof, feel free to discuss it with me over a pint at my local session if you're ever in KC...I'm always looking to learn from good players, but prefer to do so in person - you learn so much more that way.

Eric

I agree. I have had Kevin Crawford and Mike Rafferty play my Folk Flute, and I could hardly tell the difference between Kevin's Grinter or Mike's Olwell. There really was not much of a difference at all. Plus, I have heard players make Olwells and Grinters sound terrible. I do believe that it is mostly the player, although a good flute is great to have, but a good flute is a good flute. If you get any of the flutes mentioned above in the hands of a good player, they are going to sound great.

[Aanvil]

Mr. Delaney may have a point... harsh though it may have sounded so that point may also be in his head too but it doesn't make it any less true.

I'm sure a pint would help considerably.

Oh and I'd trade my mother for a new keyed Olwell Nicholson.

Sorry mum.

[JayDoc]

I'll chime in and say my keyless M&E ebonite is very nice. I take it travelling, knowing it won't have wood issues. I like its heft. And its tone isn't bad. My M&E blackwood keyless cracked and I had to have it repaired, but before it cracked, and after repair, it's a nice sounding flute (esp. given the price). I was a little tempted by the 8 key idea for that price, but am a bit put off by the comments here. I've had some crappy keyed flutes and it's not encouraging. But it's a valid point that one gets better as a player, and maybe the flute gets a little "broken in" making it easier to play over time.
I'm in line for a very nice keyless, but I wonder in general what folks recommend as to a more or less "affordable"4 to 8 keyed flute? Really good makers charge a lot for them (I'm sure justifiably--but it's still hard for a relative neophyte to give that a go...)
Best,
Jaydoc