quickey: ideal tempos for tune types

[chris_coreline]

Im just abut to sit down with a metronome and streighten myself out when i realised im not too sure what the ideal speed ranges for the different tune types are. I really want to work on my acuracey and 'tightness'. I know there is variation between tunes but i do need a general guide line for tempos for reels jigs polkas hornpipes and the rest.

[WyoBadger]

I can't answer your question, though I'll bet others can. It seems like there is a great deal of variation and players just take the tune at whatever tempo suits them.

I would say this, though: When practicing with a metronome, if in doubt, go slower. I usually find it more difficult to play fast tunes slowly, because at a fast speed it is too easy to fudge details and not notice. When one slows a tune way down, one is forced to pay more attention. The habits thus formed tend to stick with you when you speed things back up. At least, that's been my experience.

Tom

[hans]

See this topic Speed on a metronome:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=68380&start=0

Some good points here:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/18725

quoting Gary:

I spent an hour or so timing some of the videos at http://comhaltas.ie (actually downloads of the audio). I included many of my favorites and mostly excluded ceili bands, though I threw in two Under-18 bands out of curiosity. The format is Players, Rhythm, Video Clip #, Tempo. I don't think this site will allow me to line things up, so sorry if it's hard to read. Tempo is in beats per minute with two beats per bar. Listed from slow to fast in each rhythm.

Michael King hornpipes 244_2 72
Tara Breen hornpipes 244_1 76
Edel Fox hornpipes 260_1 77
Dylan Foley hornpipes 251_4 77
Bronwyn de Paor hornpipes 241_3 78
Maeve Flanagan hornpipes 250_2 84
Peter Horan hornpipes 252_5 92

Mairaid Corridan jigs 258_2 101
Maeve Flanagan jigs 242_3 110
James Mahon jigs 241_2 111
Sorcha Costello jigs 265_5 113
Kylie Moynagh jigs 257_3 113
Emma Sweeney jigs 241_4 116
Mike & Mary Rafferty jigs 242_5 116
Rowsome Family jigs 249_4 117
Billy McComiskey jigs 243_3 119
Peter Horan & Gerry Harrington jigs 252_6 121
Seamus Bugler & Paddy O'Donoghue jigs 257_5 125
John Whelan jigs 250_3 126
John McEvoy & John Wynne jigs 245_1 128
Mulcahy Family jigs 252_3 129

Carmel O'Dea reels 241_1 90
Carmel O'Dea reels 241_1 96
Erin McGeown reels 244_3 97
Kylie Moynagh reels 257_4 97
Maeve Flanagan reels 256_3 97
Bronwyn de Paor reels 241_3 97
Keith Gildea reels 244_5 98
Joan Hanrahan & Dympna O'Sullivan reels 266_5 99
Peter Horan & Gerry Harrington reels 252_4 99
Ernestine Healy reels 245_2 103
Joe & Joannie Madden reels 242_6 103
Fr. Charlie Coen reels 251_5 103
Jack Talty & David O'Brien reels 266_3 104
Session led by Billy McComiskey reels 250_5 104
Brian Conway & Maeve Flanagan reels 242_2 104
Joe & Joannie Madden reels 243_2 105
Laura Beagon reels 266_1 106
Billy McComiskey reels 242_4 106
Eugene Bender reels 250_1 107
Sean Walsh reels 245_4 107
O'Raghallaigh, O'Mahoney reels 240_6 107
Dylan Foley reels 252_2 107
Garry Shannon reels 246_3 108
5 young American fiddlers reels 250_4 109
Rose Flanagan & Dylan Foley reels 252_1 109
Deirdre & Eimear Reilly reels 258_5 109
Bobby Gardiner & Marcus Maloney reels 249_2 110
Tigh Na Coille Ceili Band reels 256_5 110
MacDarra O'Raghallaigh reels 254_1 110
Cruinniu reels 246_1 110
John McEvoy & John Wynne reels 245_1 111
Peter Staunton reels 245_3 111
Fergus McGorman reels 244_4 111
Mulcahy Family reels 248_1 111
Michael King reels 244_2 112
Tara Breen reels 244_1 112
Innis Og Ceili Band reels 256_6 112
Mick O'Connor & Oliver Diviney reels 241_5 113
John McEvoy & John Wynne reels 246_5 114
John Whelan reels 243_1 115
Brian Conway, Joannie Madden & Billy McComiskey reels 242_1 117

[Liam]

Im just abut to sit down with a metronome and streighten myself out when i realised im not too sure what the ideal speed ranges for the different tune types are. I really want to work on my acuracey and 'tightness'. I know there is variation between tunes but i do need a general guide line for tempos for reels jigs polkas hornpipes and the rest.

Ummm... I know this is not the answer you are looking for, but really there is no standard tempos. I have been in sessions where polkas were played at 60 BPM and ones where 120 BPM would have been a nice break .

About the only general rule of thumb is that reels are a bit faster than jigs and both are faster than hornpipes... but the exact tempos will depend on the session and whether or not you are playing for dancers.

--
Bill

[colomon]

About the only general rule of thumb is that reels are a bit faster than jigs

According to the chart above, jigs are generally a bit faster than reels.

[hans]

About the only general rule of thumb is that reels are a bit faster than jigs

According to the chart above, jigs are generally a bit faster than reels.

Faster meaning more beats per minute. But jigs have 6 eighths per bar, whereas reels have 8 eighths, so reels may be faster for the player as you play more notes per bar.

For reference, the time it takes to play 32 bars
(typically AABB at 8 bars per part, 2 beats per bar)
is:
40 seconds = 96 bpm
39 seconds = 98 bpm
38 seconds = 101 bpm
37 seconds = 104 bpm
36 seconds = 107 bpm
35 seconds = 110 bpm
34 seconds = 113 bpm
33 seconds = 116 bpm
32 seconds = 120 bpm
31 seconds = 124 bpm
30 seconds = 128 bpm

So if you play a jig at speed 116 bpm, you play 348 eighths per minute (if it would consist of eighths only). Whereas playing a reel at 116 bpm you play 464 eighths per minute, relatively. In both cases the tune takes 33 seconds to play.

Or, looking at playing eighths at the same speed for jigs and reels:
If you play a fast jig at say 128 bpm, you play 384 eigths per minute. If you play 384 eighths per minute in a reel, the beats per minute are 96. This is on the slow side for reels. So reels generally play faster than jigs, even though they have less beats per minute.

[talasiga]

If its "traditional dance tunes" you are doing then you should be able to play the thing in various tempos within a DANCEABLE range to suit the needs of different communities of dancers.
See?

If your aim isn't "traditional dance tunes", then you have pitched this question in the wrong forum.

[lixnaw]

Im just abut to sit down with a metronome and streighten myself out when i realised im not too sure what the ideal speed ranges for the different tune types are. I really want to work on my acuracey and 'tightness'. I know there is variation between tunes but i do need a general guide line for tempos for reels jigs polkas hornpipes and the rest.

This might help
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/julesbitter5

Cheers!

[chris_coreline]

If its "traditional dance tunes" you are doing then you should be able to play the thing in various tempos within a DANCEABLE range to suit the needs of different communities of dancers.
See?

If your aim isn't "traditional dance tunes", then you have pitched this question in the wrong forum.

the only time people dance when im playing is when their drunk and want to take the piss.

i was playing music in the company of dancers once, and when it was time for dancing the musicians were to be quiet while the dancers plodded along to a CD.

[benhall.1]

As a general point (it hardly helps to answer the OP's question) my understanding is that this forum is not just about "traditional dance tunes" and is not about all "traditional dance tunes" either. So, ask what you like.

[cboody]

This might help
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/julesbitter5

Cheers!

Well, I do hope there are errors on the samples on CD Baby. There's a "reel" example that is clearly in 3/4!! That aside. I don't think much of this approach. While it will help steady tempo so will a metronome, and the metronome won't add in rhythms that might not work with the tune being played and might only confuse the user. Just my opinion of course. Others may disagree.

[benhall.1]

That would be number 37 would it, cboody? And I think (if I understand you) that I, for one, agree with you. I'd go much further - the samples I listened to are no useful guide either to tempos or to the natural rhythms of Irish dance tunes. I listened to about half a dozen.

[cboody]

That would be number 37 would it, cboody? And I think (if I understand you) that I, for one, agree with you. I'd go much further - the samples I listened to are no useful guide either to tempos or to the natural rhythms of Irish dance tunes. I listened to about half a dozen.

37 it is. You are being more gentle than I would be in a non public forum..... Awful stuff I think.

[talasiga]

As a general point (it hardly helps to answer the OP's question) my understanding is that this forum is not just about "traditional dance tunes" and is not about all "traditional dance tunes" either. So, ask what you like.

the topic is about tune types and it is in the Irish Trad forum.
QED.

[benhall.1]

Not in the least QED. Not when you, rather offhandedly in my opinion, restrict a questioner (and by implication everyone else on the thread as well) to a narrow area on the basis that anything else is in "the wrong forum". Not all tunes are dance tunes. And the term "traditional dance tunes" encompasses far more than is implied as included in the term "Irish Traditional Music Forum". It seems to me that if you're going to tell people what to do, or what not to do, you might as well be a little more precise and accurate in what you tell them.