is a sharp high B normal on a low whistle?

[kings taxes]

quick question and apologies if this is an old and obvious one

just bought a used Overton low D whistle, crackin sound but the high B is too sharp when played open fingered- i can flatten it into tune by closing the fingering but this is awkward. My considerably cheaper mass production penny whistle has a crackin high B.

so is this just a feature of a low D whistle or do i hunt down a better one to buy?

[Bloomfield]

quick question and apologies if this is an old and obvious one

just bought a used Overton low D whistle, crackin sound but the high B is too sharp when played open fingered- i can flatten it into tune by closing the fingering but this is awkward. My considerably cheaper mass production penny whistle has a crackin high B.

so is this just a feature of a low D whistle or do i hunt down a better one to buy?

Are you sure you are not playing everything below the high b a bit flat? Overtons want to be played with strong breath support and if you go to soft on them, they can be flat. Then on the high notes, where you are used to really pushing to get the note, you use proper pressure and the note comes into tune. Try blowing every note with a quite a bit of force and see what that does.

(and make sure it was built by either Bernard Overton or Colin Goldie.)

[kings taxes]

thanks, it is definitely sharp though, nothing to do with blowing pressure. I am 99% sure it is an overton whistle, though it was purchased 2nd hand on ebay

[Goldie]

Sorry to hear you are having problems. Does the whistle have 3 flat sides on the head and an Overton stamp on the bottom of the tube opposite the D stamp? If not it is not an Overton.

If I made it my name would be engraved inside the end of the whistle. Normally the B note in the second octave if anything would be on the flatter side before I start fine tuning to bring it to the right pitch, so that yours is sharp sound strange to me. If Bernard had built it, he had a different hole configuration to what I use so I do not know.

If it is one of mine, I certainly will be happy to help you out on that as that should not be the case.

Hope this helps
Colin

[kings taxes]

yes, head has 3 flat sides and overton stamp opposite D stamp at bottom.

thanks for your response Goldie. upper octave B is definitely sharp. I have compared with my friends chieftain which has a true upper octave B. what can be done to correct this if anything?

thanks

[pancelticpiper]

I'm not sure if all whistle players are aware of the fact that the upper B on nearly all uilleann pipes chanters is sharp.
This Overton would be very useful to someone who plays with pipers on a regular basis.

My Burke Pro Viper has this feature as well, which I've always assumed was intentional. It's Bs are exactly like those on the uilleann pipes, with the low B a bit flat and the high B a bit sharp, ideal for playing along with pipers. (Uilleann pipes also usually have a sharp low E and a flat high E.)

[Goldie]

Via email we found out the whistle was made by either Bernard or Phil, if I could see a picture of the head I would know who built it. I am sure this note was not intentionally made this way. I personally have never been asked to make that note play in such a manner, if needed the note could be blown sharp on the ones I make, using a higher breath pressure than the notes below, to me it simply is a tuning flaw.

Colin

[pancelticpiper]

to me it simply is a tuning flaw.

What is "in tune" is a situational thing. Since I play most of the time with a guitar player I need my whistles to play in tune to equal temperament. But a whistle which plays perfectly in tune to equal temperament would be "out of tune" when playing along with most D uilleann pipe chanters on which the F# in both octaves is a tad flat, the low B is a tad flat, and the high B is a tad sharp (or in some cases very sharp; 20 cents sharp is not unusual).

So as I was saying this particular whistle would be a valuable asset to someone who plays along with uilleann pipers on a regular basis and wants to be in tune with them.

By the way, a violinist friend who has pefect pitch pointed out to me that many Irish fiddle players likewise play their high Bs sharp. I assume that this is a habit formed due to playing with pipers.

[jemtheflute]

I can't speak about the particular whistle in question, but I believe (and maybe Colin can confirm) that this issue of 2nd 8ve B tuning is one of the perennial problem areas in constructing Low D whistles - something to do with the bore diameter/length ratios that are good for strong low tone being particularly unhelpful for the upper top hand notes, perhaps, at least in an all-cylinder (parallel bore) instrument - I believe a conoid bore (as in e.g Jon Swayne's wooden low whistles) helps address this. Transverse flutes can have a similar problem - it's all about balancing compromises in design. Ideally the upper notes would use a different bore than the lower ones. If you use a bore optimised for the higher notes, the low end is comparatively weak.

It is precisely the chronically sharp 2nd 8ve B that IMO makes Howard low whistles a complete waste of money (though they have other "issues" too).

[MTGuru]

FWIW, I just checked my Goldie-Overton low D, and the high B is bang-on in tune (ET). In fact, every single note on the instrument is bang-on, with no tricky breath maneuvers. It's apparent that Colin has made some sort of deal with Mephistopheles.

[pancelticpiper]

Yes I think it's safe to say that a sharp high B is not the norm on Low D's.

It's right in tune on my Susato, Reviol, and MK, and as I recall it was on the Chieftan, Overtons, and Copeland that I've had pass through my hands.

I had assumed that the sharpish high B on the Burke was intentional because I knew that Michael Burke had got a lot of feedback from Mick O Brien and other uilleann pipers, to whom an "in tune" high B would sound flattish.