New flute, looking for a reedy, strong sound

[Rhadge]

I'm certain he's devastated, but then again, maybe he shouldn't be reading in a public forum where his playing will be evaluated by others.

Anyway, it's going to be a Seery, after some consideration.

[Jayhawk]

Rhadge - the other flutes don't have a wedge or lip plate because they don't need them. Doug's flutes are cylindrical PVC tubes instead of conical bored instruments, and because of this they go flat in the upper octave without the wedge (unless you lip it up) and the lip plate increases chimney depth and improves the tone. On a conical bored instrument, the embouchure is naturally deeper and the conical shape corrects for the upper octave so it doesn't go flat.

I'm sure a flute maker could give a slightly more well stated answer, but the above is the gist of it.

The Seery is a good flute. Tom Doorley sure sounded fine playing one...

Eric

[Rhadge]

Thanks for explaining Jayhawk!

Doorley is good indeed.

[crookedtune]

Since we're on the subject, and Rob's dander is up anyway, here's a poke into the next logical question.

The "beginner" wood and delrin flutes discussed are clearly capable of much more than most of us will ever be able to deliver in the way of technique. And yet most who stick with it eventually want to move "up" to Olwells, Wilkes, Hammys, Murrays, Grinters and the like. I often think about doing that myself, but balk when told how silly it would be to expect that to improve my playing. I'm a hobbyist and amateur, and I'll clearly never really outgrow my Burns and C&B flutes. (I love 'em both!). Still, I can't help wondering about the fuss.

So, any of you who have gone high-end: when, why, and was it the right decision?

[Gabriel]

I play a Aebi Pratten flute with 8 keys which is my third flute. The second one was a Reviol 8-keyer which I sold due to hand problems (they're quite big in diameter on the upper hand) and because the Aebi, once tried, fitted me better and was offered to me for a great price. My first flute was a self-made one. All of them were/are wooden and conical.

I have a fourth flute on order, a new Aebi Rudall, which will be finished early next year. Reason for ordering that one mainly was that it takes less air, has a better all-fingers-off C# which I need for band work and fiddle tunes very often, and is lighter. The sound I get from it is much like the one I have. All in all a flute is a tool for me which I require to work correctly with as little "work" as possible. The current Aebi matches this requirement big time, but the new Aebi is still better.

[pipersgrip]

I love my C.Burns Folk Flute. It has a nice strong tone, and you can hit a great reedy bottom D on it with little effort.

[celticmodes]

The "beginner" wood and delrin flutes discussed are clearly capable of much more than most of us will ever be able to deliver in the way of technique. And yet most who stick with it eventually want to move "up" to Olwells, Wilkes, Hammys, Murrays, Grinters and the like...

My beginner Pratten (Forbes) will probably be my only Pratten. I needed to play in more keys and I wanted to try a Rudall'ish flute so my next was a more expensive model. That's my justification. Really, I'm an instrument slut. I love to spread the love and will find any excuse to buy a new flute/harp/etc.

Kevin does sound a little more airy on those clips than on the professional recordings I have. Might just be his embouchure is not as finely tuned on the Forbes or the recording equipment.

Rob is correct. The tone is the responsibility of the player. Certain flutes are easier to do certain things on but all bets are off when you master it. I thought I'd never honk my Reviol but now I honk away whenever I please.

[Jayhawk]

You really should never underestimate the importance of recording equipment on a sound clip, either.

Last night, I was messing around with my netbook (both audacity and the video camera recording - the netbook has stereo mics on it which is pretty nice), handheld Sony Stereo Recorder, my MP3 player, and the cheap desktop mic on my old desktop computer (using Audacity). It's amazing the difference between clips - you'd think I was playing different instruments. FWIW, the handheld Sony stereo recorder (ICDUX71) was far and away the best.

[drewr]

I also started on a Tipple D, and in my case I eventually moved on to a Copley and Boegli delrin. I found the transition essentially seamless and, although I still play my Tipple often (and even bought a Eb from Doug after buying the delrin), the Copley flute is a noticeably better player.

By the way, delrin flutes don't need a fajardo wedge due to the fact that they have a tapered bore. A Tipple PVC flute is cylindrical, therefore a wedge is needed to fix up the upper register.

[bradhurley]

So, any of you who have gone high-end: when, why, and was it the right decision?

When: when you've gotten to the point where your flute is standing in the way of your becoming a better player: i.e., you're starting to feel your flute's limitations. Reaching this point can take anywhere from a few months to decades, depending on your abilities as a player. You may think you've reached that point long before you actually have, but you'll probably reach it eventually.

Why: to allow you to reach your potential without feeling limited by your instrument. A good flute has essentially no limits; you can play it for the rest of your life and still have room to grow into its capabilities.

Was it the right decision: For me, absolutely. I played an antique German simple-system student flute for my first 10 years, and at that point I felt like I'd pretty well tapped that flute's potential. I was wrong, of course; it's now in the hands of a classical player in Boston who has reportedly made it sing in ways I'd never imagined it could, but I do think I needed something different for Irish music. The main thing I've gotten out of a better flute is a much more satisfying tone with greater depth and complexity. Having a flute that sounds great makes you want to play more. And playing (along with listening and learning) is one of the keys to becoming a better player. If you have a flute that doesn't sound good even in the hands of a more experienced player, you're not going to be as motivated to pick it up and play as you would if you had a flute that inspires you.

A lot of people, including some of the greatest Irish players of all time, had no choice: they played the flute that was available to them. And they played great music on those flutes despite the cracks and electrical tape and hose clamps. Once you really know a flute it's hard to switch, but I bet a lot of those people would have been happy to switch to a better flute if it had been available.

I find Crawford's sound a bit breathy for my taste

As others have said, it's foolhardy to judge the qualities of a flute or a player by a recording. If you listened to Kevin playing live, on any flute imaginable, the last word that would come to mind is "breathy." Similarly, it's funny how many people disparage Catherine McEvoy's flute or her tone based on her commercial recordings; when you hear her in person her flute fills the room and sounds anything but "breathy."

[Rhadge]

I'm familiar with the playing of Kevin Crawford. It's not his general playing that I commented on, but the sound in the clip, thus the comment "Crawford sounds breathy", rather than "Crawford has a breathy style of playing".

[Kirk B]

The same player can sound fundamentally different on the same flute if he really wants to. It's also a question of style.

I agree 100%. Even though I've only been playing for about 2 months, I've spent a lot of that time concentrating on embouchure, breathing and tone. I can get both reedy and round tone out of my cheap... um, inexpensive Dixon 3-piece polymer. Then when my Forbes gets here later this summer I can start all over again.

I would have never believed that I could get a reedy tone out of a small holed Dixon, but I can. If I can ever get some notes thrown together into something that resembles a tune I'll try posting a clip.

Yep, I'm workin' on it

Regards,

Kirk

[greenspiderweb]

Since we're on the subject, and Rob's dander is up anyway, here's a poke into the next logical question.

The "beginner" wood and delrin flutes discussed are clearly capable of much more than most of us will ever be able to deliver in the way of technique. And yet most who stick with it eventually want to move "up" to Olwells, Wilkes, Hammys, Murrays, Grinters and the like. I often think about doing that myself, but balk when told how silly it would be to expect that to improve my playing. I'm a hobbyist and amateur, and I'll clearly never really outgrow my Burns and C&B flutes. (I love 'em both!). Still, I can't help wondering about the fuss.

So, any of you who have gone high-end: when, why, and was it the right decision?

...The main thing I've gotten out of a better flute is a much more satisfying tone with greater depth and complexity. Having a flute that sounds great makes you want to play more. And playing (along with listening and learning) is one of the keys to becoming a better player. If you have a flute that doesn't sound good even in the hands of a more experienced player, you're not going to be as motivated to pick it up and play as you would if you had a flute that inspires you....

Yes, what Brad said...the first time I played a Hammy, it was like a light switch went on, and I found out what all the fuss was about-there is something there, in it that inspires and makes your senses take note of what differences there are between flutemakers, designs, and experience in crafting, and the results from it after you play some higher end flutes. That was the first time my wife made a very positive comment about my playing-she said "wow, you are getting better"! That sadly, was the last time I heard that, but hey, it said something about how I sounded on the flute, and can mainly be attributed to the flute, and possibly how I realated to it also.

When I played my first Murray, it was another revelation-something very basically different about it that wasn't in another flute I've tried yet either-it sounded very uniquely expressive to my ears, and yes, inspiring to play. Same with my Copeland I still have-there's a difference that sets it apart from my other flutes, in how it plays and sounds, that makes me want to pick it up and play, which I think is what you really want from a flute.

Is a higher end flute necessary to enjoy the flute and playing music? Absolutely not, if you (as Brad said) stay inspired in your playing. Every time I pick up my Casey Burns Boxwood Folk Flute, it still inspires me too. It has that uniquely different tone and playability that makes it special also, and keeps me interested, and from selling it. Same with my Copley Delrin-another amazing flute at the price it's offered.

So, Charlie, I say go for it, if you can afford to do so! Try a higher end flute, but don't sell your other flutes that keep you inspired, until you are sure the new flute suits you as well-sometimes they just don't, depending on how you relate to them. Though it does take a while to decide if it does suit you often, and to really get to know a flute-and how to best play it.

Do I have too many flutes because of it? Easy answer-yes! But how do I decide which ones to sell, and which to keep?!! That's the hard part for me. Sooner or later, I'll come to terms with it, and settle down. My playing is starting to turn another corner after being on a plateau for a while, and I'm discovering more about some of the nuances that had been elusive before, so I think I'm starting to get there, and I'm happy to be on that road again.

Flute on!
Barry

[Jumbuk]

So, any of you who have gone high-end: when, why, and was it the right decision?

That's a fair question, and since I am still a beginner (after 3+ years) one I have to justify.

I still have my CB FF, and I play it a fair bit. I upgraded to a CB blackwood six-key for three reasons:

- I wanted a metal slide for better tuning in sessions
- I wanted keys for some non-trad sessions
- One turned up at a reasonable price

Even though the quality of the flute shouldn't matter all that much at my stage of expertise, I do find the 6-key more precise in tuning (not unexpected) and easier to play in the upper octave. The bloody thing is a lot heavier though than the FF.

... plus I have to admit that I feel more "trad" and "authentic" holding an instrument that looks like everyone else's - on the other hand, it's fun to be playing the FF and have people asking "what is that thing"?

[Denny]

some of 'em beg to go places that the others will only approach under duress