What tools would James Kenna have had?

[bobblee001]

Ok, its 1790 or so. What tools would be available to me to make reamers? Then what type of lathe would I have had? wood turning tools? Im very curious as to how a top maker back then did it. We have all this technology today and take it for granted but how hard must it have been then?

Cheers
Bob

[Ciarameddaru]

Hi, I'm coming from the Non-Uilleann pipe forum, but I might be able to add a unique perspective to your interesting question if you don't mind. I can tell you that the guy who made my newest zampogna didn't get electricity to his area until 1975 which is in a remote part of Southern Italy (where my Grandfather's family emigrated from). Prior to using a lathe that runs on an electric motor he used one that was operated by a pedal that he made himself. Also, all of the tools that he (still) uses to work the pipes on the lathe, including reaming them out, he made himself on a forge. I have been in his workshop and it is like stepping back in time - truly. This is one of those guys that doesn't speak standard Italian, only his local town's dialect and I had to have my cousin translate portions of our conversation when we couldn't understand each other. Southern Italy had been so isolated up until the 1960 or so that it was basically stuck in the 18th century in parts, so I imagine what was going on there in the mid 1900's (my pipe maker started making them in 1958) was similar to what was going on in Ireland in the 1790s

[s1m0n]

Treadle lathes have been around forever; since the romans, at least. The cast iron in the one below likely means 19th rather than 18th century, but that's not far from 1790.



And there's a page of treadle lathes here, all of which look plausible for the era.

[CHasR]

aaah,, there was a show on PBS maybe 15-20 years ago called 'woodworker's corner'or something lke this, I cant remember,
he used to wear a seersucker if anyone can help me out,
where there was a guy who did things absolutely the...old...fashioned...way...for sure he had a treadle lathe,
all tools were hand forged and stuck into a dowel for a handle. gouges, saws, hamers, everything.

[djm]

I have seen mention several times of old-time makers fashioning reamers from socket bayonets. Probably done with a hand file.

there was a show on PBS

I suspect you are referring to The Woodwright's Shop. That was a very infomative show.

djm

[CHasR]

I have seen mention several times of old-time makers fashioning reamers from socket bayonets. Probably done with a hand file.

there was a show on PBS

I suspect you are referring to The Woodwright's Shop. That was a very infomative show.

djm

Bingo! Thnx Deej.

PS your avatar is slobbering.

[billh]

I have seen mention several times of old-time makers fashioning reamers from socket bayonets. Probably done with a hand file.

Probably _not_ how they were made by Kenna, however; hand files were quite expensive and you didn't want to waste them removing metal from hard steel. Most bayonets are too soft to make good reamers anyhow (there are exceptions, and possibly they could be case-hardened). In 1760 various kinds of blacksmithing were important trades and there were plenty of professional toolmakers as well. (Some 20th century makers did make a reamer or two from a bayonet.)

Toolmaking was pretty advanced by 1760 or so - we're after all entering the "modern era" by then. While nowadays the treadle lathes you see in museums - especially in North America! - tend towards the 'rustic', in Europe there was some very nice machinery available. Dublin in Kenna's time was still pretty cosmopolitan - it was at the end of a (brief) period in the 1700's when it was a major cultural city of Europe.

One of the first works dedicated to wood-turning was Bergeron's "Manuel du Tourneur", which was published in 1792 and reprinted by his son in about 1816. It's a good source of info about what was available and, at least in part, how things were done. There's some very elaborate stuff in there!

The only commonly-used pipemaking technology (ignoring the issue of treadle power vs. electric motors) that I can think of that wasn't available in the 18th century is gun drills. Some respected current makers do not use them, using old-fashioned D-bits for long hole boring instead - slow, but effective when used carefully. But some tools that are cheap nowadays were more expensive - files for instance, which were all individually hand cut, and glasspaper/abrasives. Carbide and High-speed-steel tools were not available, but at treadle speeds they were not necessary. Premade metal tubing was a rarity, but sheet and bar forms were available for hand-rolling.

Nowadays the best pipemakers are all toolmakers too, and many make a majority of their tools themselves. In the 18th century this would have been a must.

Realize that Leo Rowsome only added an electric motor to his lathe in the '60's or so according to his daughters, so all those sought-after 1930's and '40's Rowsome sets were made on a treadle lathe.

So to go back to the original question, Kenna would have had access to:

lathe (suitable for turning wood and metal), possibly with metal ways, and with cross-slide and/or "slide rest"; it was apparently not uncommon for these lathes to be kitted out as milling machines as well
high-carbon steel (for making tools like d bits, boring bits, reamers, gouges, etc.)
grinding wheel
loads of cutting tools/chisels/turning tools
sheet and bar brass (for making keys, springs, ferrules, and tubing)
ivory, bone, and horn
hard wire for making small bits, etc.
pillar drills, bow drills, hand reamers, gimlets
hammers and anvils
all sorts of saws, planes, froes
hand grinding stones
files
fine abrasives
mutton fat (cutting agent, machine lubricant)
shellac, linseed oil, acids, varnish, etc.

He would also have had many years' experience and training, making and using hand tools (and the backing of generations of such knowledge). This is the part we are missing today! Oh yeah, and time...

Bill

[djm]

PS your avatar is slobbering.

Oops! Darn! Sorry about that.

djm

[Philipp]

This is a very interesting topic. Thanks a lot for all your posts, I enjoyed very much reading them and imagining the pipemakers two centuries ago!
Let me just add one thought I had: Maybe some of the practices from the past are still of a great value regarding the things we can learn from them.

For example:

Realize that Leo Rowsome only added an electric motor to his lathe in the '60's or so according to his daughters, so all those sought-after 1930's and '40's Rowsome sets were made on a treadle lathe.

When I read this I thought that after all I heard people say, the Rowsome sets are regarded as of the highest quality. If this is true for all of them, then it must be possible to make a modern set of uilleann pipes either on an electric lathe or on one driven by muscle power, each way getting the same quality. Sure, an electric lathe is much faster, but I'm sure we can at least say that the source of energy is irrelecant for quality.

Thinking of all the problems our society suffers from today, like environment pollution, climate change... and also the big gap between poor and rich, which is caused by a globalized economy... maybe in the future it will also be necessary for piping and pipemaking to go different ways.
Energy is only one aspect: Why don't we use solar power for driving a lathe? Can't a pipemaker set up his workshop whereever he wants and then why not in an old mill where he could have a water turbine?

What about materials? In Kenna's time, of course, there were already exotic woods shipped around the world... it was one of the centuries of slavery, which also had it's part in the richness of fine woodwork we can find today in Europe and other parts of the world. Just guess who was felling the trees in the tropic forests back then. An who does this today? Isn't it often a kind of slavery?

Recently I saw someone who had a vegan set of pipes. No leather on it, even the bellows made from some goretex stuff. I'd say leather is much better, because animals are a "renewable" resource. Keeping in mind that there shouldn't be too much of them, the meat shouldn't be shipped around the world, they should be kept in a 'human' way etc. BUT at least he was thinking about the materials his pipe was made from.... Did you ever think about the ways Dalbergia melanoxylon takes to come to you in form of a chanter or some drones?

There's also a big social issue in pipemaking. All of us apreciate the craftmanship of pipemakers and I think they get good money for the instruments they build. What about the people working in metal mines in China or harvesting timber in Africa? Of course, already in Kenna's time, in the whole history of mankind, where were people getting payed too low. At least in the 18th century, I'm sure, there were much more things needed for pipemaking in Ireland also made in Ireland. Shouldn't How can we expect a good price for things we build (e.g. pipes) when on the other hand we don't want to pay a fair price for the materials?

These are just a few aspects, and I'm sure there are more to find. Maybe a little bit of "back-to-the-roots-attitude" would be very healthy even in pipemaking or piping. This doesn't mean we should renounce using electricity, but we should think about the way we do it. Maybe the economy should focus more on sustainability and become more regional... What role can piping of pipemaking play in this process?

Cheers,

Philipp

ps.: Maybe this is helpful to visualize what I mean: http://www.storyofstuff.com/ or also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidarity_economy

[uillmann]

I had an old treadle lathe, a big Barnes c.1880, about 12" x 36". Let me tell you, I would not have wanted to make a reamer on it. After about 10 minutes of leg pumping, I'd had all the fun I was going to have. In the end, I made my first reamer on a $70 wood lathe with a big $10 millbastard file that I got from the local feed store. It took days, and by the time I finally got it done, the file was duller than dull. Then it took a good long while to grind it, plunging it into a barrel of cold water every few strokes. Not impossible, just time consuming. I was quite happy to have an electric motor. Even happier when I eventually got a metal lathe.

[Colin29]

I was only watching the Woodwright show this morning on PBS, I had never seen or heard of it before but found it very interesting, he was using his treadle lathe and a bow saw to make a fairly decent looking crocheting stand, very impressive, I work in a woodshop and have access to all the latest machinery and equipment and still the end product never amazes me as much as anything the old masters made.
I am currently kitting out my own workshop with a view to turning out my own wood products (cabinets, boxes, etc) but would love to give making myself a set of pipes a shot, nothing ventured nothing gained as the oul saying goes.

[Ciarameddaru]

This is a response to Philipp's post:

Sorry to annoy you all with my "zampogna perspective" again, but here it goes:

I agree with a lot of what your are saying. There is absolutely no reason why bagpipes have to be made from non-sustainable exotic woods from Africa and South America or with body parts of endangered species. Not only are we depleting finite resources but you are also creating a more complex supply chain that consumes more energy. Even purchasing Ivory that is supposedly certified perpetuates this irrational belief and indirectly increases demand that somehow part of a tooth from a dead elephant is necessary to have on a musical instrument that is supposed to originate from peasants who never would have even dreamed of such thing.

To me the core of the mystique around the "bagpipe" is its origins in peasant life - a pastoral subsistence way of life that involves humans balancing their way of life with that of nature. At least this is my experience with the Italian piping tradition which is still largely unchanged from how it has been for hundreds of years. All pipes are made from local hardwoods and animal parts used for them are from domestic sustainable farm animals. An effort is made to remain tradition and local. (I personally like knowing that the wood my pipes are made form grew in the same region my family came from in Italy as opposed to some unknown place in Africa).

I'm not saying that one tradition's method of making pipes is inherently better than the other. I believe that much of the reason that Southern Italian pipe making has remains such a small scale economic venture is because for the most part Southern Italy has remained in relative poverty and economically underdeveloped compared to Western Europe. Perhaps if Southern Italy was a rich place we would be seeing zampognas made out of Ebony with Elephant Ivory and bags made out of zebra hide

My point is that when I see a piping tradition that has evolved to the point where such a large emphasis is placed on the "bling" elements (I'm thinking highland pipes here too) of construction with a disregard to where these materials might be coming from or what impact they might be having on the environment, etc, I see a piping tradition that has become completely disconnected from its roots in peasant "folk" life, which to me is where the soul of the music resides. (If the Uilleann pipe is not or never was a "folk" instrument, I apologize, but I'm writing this assuming it was/is)

I will state that I am by no way implying that I am above any of this. I am an American and a consumer and I look around me in my room almost every object I own was produced in a factory except for the zampognas in the closet and a couple other folk instruments. But I think people, including myself, should at least be aware of their impact on the world and conscientious of the consequences of their choices even if it pertains to something so trivial as a bagpipe (blasphemy!)

End Rant

Happy Easter

[billh]

Not all uses of exotic hardwoods are bad for the species. Patterns of exploitation are very species-specific - most species are under greater threat from forest clearances, being used as firewood, charcoal making for gold extraction, and similar. In some cases, supporting careful, selective high-value logging actually is helpful to conservation... but of course you need enforcement capability.

A few species are indeed threatened by specific logging activities - in those particular cases you could establish a link between our activities and the species survival, and conclude that we should avoid those species. In other cases, such as the case with African Blackwood, the species is not under threat (because it's a common shrub) but large specimens have become very scarce. In extreme cases the trees take centuries to start producing seeds - those are the ones that are most easily made extinct through overharvesting. At least in the case of African Blackwood, there are ongoing projects aimed at sustainability, which we can support financially while we hopefully wait for sustainably grown material to become available.

On that topic, there are some exotics that are farmed and available commercially from supposedly-sustainable sources. Unfortunately these projects target the big markets (rightfully, since the big markets are the main source of demand), i.e. decking and hardwood flooring, thus volume in cubic metres is maximized to the detriment of density and fineness of grain. But compared to "construction" uses, woodwind instrument making is a drop in the bucket. One ebony tree could supply all of uilleann pipemaking for years!

There's a big problem with native timbers for musical instrument making - most of them are too porous. This is especially true for uilleann pipes, in my experience, since they are not routinely oiled and are dry blown, very narrow bored, and must play efficiently in two octaves. European boxwood is an exception among native timbers, and a time-honored one - makers realized for centuries that it is superior to other native woods for woodwind instruments. Unfortunately it is not something that is being sustainably managed even within Europe, since nobody wants to wait centuries to harvest wood, and people with big boxwoods that need felling don't realize what a valuable thing they have. (As for instruments such as zampogna, sure, if it was traditionally made from a local timber, it makes perfect sense to go back to that timber provided it can still be obtained. But from the beginning, union and uilleann pipes seem to have been made from boxwood until supplanted by exotic timbers in the 19th century)

Some 19th century union and uilleann pipe makers did use native timbers other than boxwood, but it still isn't known what they really used! I can't tell from the examples I've examined, and nobody has offered up a historic instrument for destructive forensic testing However, I've been doing quite a bit of experimenting with native european timbers. For the most part they fail the grade, and the more I work with them the more I think they must have been intensively treated somehow before use by the old makers; however I haven't figured out quite how it was done (Who knows, maybe boiled in linseed oil or mutton fat or something...?) Plumwood seems OK, an exception among fruitwoods which for the most part seem too leaky without the bores being sealed. Laburnum is good, and hornbeam is reportedly good, but these are not timbers found commonly in Ireland and neither timber is traded commercially here (you can however get turkish plumwood from octopus). In short, the commercially available European timbers don't fit the bill.

To really go down the local, sustainable route, we need to re-educate ourselves regarding harvesting and seasoning of scarce native timbers, and establish a network of folks who can find candidate trees when they need felling, then slowly bring them along as AAA grade timber for our purposes. Most woodyards and even specialist hardwood harvesters (usually glorified tree surgeons!) don't have the experience and facilities for seasoning these difficult timbers to the perfect condition which we need - their materials are generally full of small checks, etc. which are fine for construction and furniture but not for pipes. Even if we can do all these things, it's unclear that we can satisfy our musical aspirations which have been conditioned to hearing ebony, blackwood, and other very-hard exotics. Maybe by vacuum impregnating native timber with PEG we could come close, but for someone who wants a native "green" solution, is polymer impregnation an attractive option?

regards

Bill

[Ciarameddaru]

Bill,
Thanks for your interesting and well thought out response. As I was writing my diatribe above I was wondering the same question; Whether or not there were good native wood sources in Ireland other than boxwood. Below is a list of common locally growing woods used in southern Italy for Zampognas. There are probably other types used - most any fruit wood is used. Many of these plants probably don't grow in Ireland. Also the zampogna is a much less precise instrument than the Uilleann pipe, so perhaps a timbre that works fine on the zampogna wouldn't play a two octave scale for the Uilleann. However I have a large Zampogna (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i36miQPAX_o) made completely out of Olive wood, and I can tell you that it's a very hard, stable and beautiful wood that seems like it would be ideal for any kind of pipe. Olive trees grow in great abundance in Southern Italy - abet slowly.

Certain woods are favored over others depending on the region in which the pipe come from.

heather (this is a very hard wood that doesn't split)
Medlar (??)
Apricot (really beautiful and marbleized)
Pear (also very nice looking)
Jujube (don't know anything about)
Black Mulberry (a hard wood, the fruit from this tree in sicily is some of the best tasting in the world...mmm)
Walnut
Cherry
Olive (considered to be the best for pipe making by many Italians)
Maple (this is used to make the stock and the bells on larger pipes where olive wood would be too difficult)
Almond (back drone tenon on Charlie's 5 palmi lol!)
Box

Also, I have a Sicilian pipe made out of Beech wood which grows on the slopes of Mt. Etna. This is not a common wood used for pipes because it's a bit softer, but this particular pipe was hand carved as opposed to turned, which would have been extremely difficult with say Olive wood. It's a very "rustic" looking little pipe but I think it has a nice warm tone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwdlraavtkE). It had a dark varnish applied, otherwise it's a light colored wood.

Also I have seen a few rare instances in which an Italian pipe maker used Ebony. I assume it would have been imported as I don't believe it grows invasively in the Italian peninsula or Sicily.

Lastly I will add that some varieties of Italian pipes - particularly those from Southern Calabria have horn trim at the edges of the bells and where the drones slide together. This either comes from the pipe makers own animals, or you can just go to the butcher and ask.

[rorybbellows]

A few pipemakers are now making chanters out of holly,but it doesn't seem to have been used much in the past which is strange as there is loads of it growing in Ireland.

RORY