Burke vs. Sindt

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 1:45 pm

John said "cheap," not "breathy." A Gen whistle is not breathy.

It is my belief that blackhawk is totally incorrect as to the tonal character of a Sindt.

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 1:46 pm

Damn, I wish I had my Sindt here so I could record a comparison. A Sindt's purity of tone is second only to some (not all) Susatos.

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 1:47 pm

See...this is why a numbering system for reviewing whistles would be less important than getting to know the style and language of a particular reviewer.

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 1:53 pm

Don't you love the world of whistling? People become famous (well, sorta) making expensive copies of cheap things. Try selling an imitation Stratocaster that costs more than the original...

DavidSchulz · Post by **DavidSchulz** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 2:38 pm

Actually there are a lot of companies that make strat copies that cost more then a standard Fender.. and they sell very well. Take G&L for example.

Azalin · Post by **Azalin** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 3:44 pm

Geeze, Blackhawk and I don't live on the same planet... Sindt breathy or chiffy? Hu, sure. I don't know how you can get more "pure" than Sindt. Guys, maybe it's time to check if there's no gum or food stucked in your Sindt's fipple!

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 4:59 pm

On 2003-01-15 16:44, Azalin wrote:
Geeze, Blackhawk and I don't live on the same planet... Sindt breathy or chiffy? Hu, sure. I don't know how you can get more "pure" than Sindt.

It's easy. Play an O'Briain, a Dixon, or a Burke. All are more more "pure" than a Sindt. See? That wasn't hard, Az!

But I'm seeing a pattern here that's interesting. NickT hated his so much he sent it back, it being far too breathy. Mine is breathy, too. Az and Jessie have evidently played very pure toned Sindts. From what I'm hearing, they must have a lot of variation from one whistle to the next.

I'm still blowing my mind about what Jessie said about Gens not being breathy whistles. Certainly they aren't as breathy as Clarkes (nothing is), but in the thousands of posts I've read here, I've never once heard Gens referred to as anything other than chiffy, by which the poster has usually meant breathy (the other definition of chiffy referring to the "pop" at the beginning of a note). And of the dozen or more I've played, I've never heard one that was close to pure. This isn't an attack on you, Jessie, just consternation at the idea of pure toned Gens.

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 5:06 pm

I think it's your (and nick's) playing, blackhawk. I recorded this on a red-topped Generation d. Is it breathy?

http://www.jessiekislin.com/music/Generation_Set.mp3

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 5:08 pm

And yes, I know I am rhythmically challenged.

Jerry Freeman · Post by **Jerry Freeman** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 5:15 pm

I wonder if it's a matter of how different people define "breathy."

When I think of breathy, I think of the sound of air blowing through the whistle, completely separate from the musical notes, like wind sounds.

There's also something I would call "complex" or "reedy" that Generations have a lot of, that I wouldn't define as breathy. Could it be this complex or reedy quality that sometimes gets referred to as "breathy"?

Also, I can think of two ways "pure" might be interpreted.

1. Without much chiff (squeaking, popping, etc.) and/or breathiness or

2. The actual waveform of the whistle's notes having fewer overtones, hence a "purer" sound, which to my ear would mean less reedy/complex.

For what it's worth,
Jerry

adriancarrington · Post by **adriancarrington** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 5:41 pm

I must say that I agree with Jerry's comments about whistle sounds. That's exactly how I would be inclined to understand the description of whistle sound.
It's a very tricky subject. I have a couple of Generations that sound like a rusty hinge...does this help????

Cheers, Adrian

DaveAuty · Post by **DaveAuty** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 5:57 pm

What's the big deal on the cross fingered Cnat on a Sindt? It's very slighty out of tune...So what! I've never been to a session where anyone bothers about perfect pitch. The whistle is a Folk instrument and isn't played in an orchestral environment where spot on tuning is important. The Sindt to me is a great whistle maybe a bit screechy at the high end but all in all a lovely rich clear tone. I also enjoy my old Generation D but again that is not perfectly in tune, to me that is part of it's character.

I am not saying it's good to play out of tune, but for the slight deviations in tuning on most whistles it's not worth worrying about.

Never tried a Burke (They don't seem to make it across the Atlantic) so I can't compare.

Dave.

StevieJ · Post by **StevieJ** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 6:08 pm

My thoughts on the Sindt "D" whistle's C-natural problems are well known, but for those who haven't heard them, I think it's really odd, to put it kindly, that John doesn't want to tackle fixing it.

Dave said that his Generations are not in tune either - debatable, but they don't have a note that is wincingly out of tune unless you adopt nonstandard fingering as suggested (oxx-xxo) which gives a particularly weak-sounding note, or underblow, which also gives a weak sound. And let's not forget that the Sindt costs 10 times as much as a Generation and is much harder to obtain.

Couple of things that nobody has mentioned: one, the Burke has a much wider body tube, giving it a more solid-sounding first octave. However with its "perturbed bore" the very top end is surprisingly quiet and docile.

Two, Burkes have this O-ring in the tuning slide which I personally don't think is a great idea for an instrument that looks as if it's built to last 1000 years. The O-rings can get dislodged or break if you pull the whistle apart. Then you have to run around for spares, which I couldn't find easily in Canada, or contact Mike for some.

Yes the Sindt is top-heavy, but the Burke is one of those whistles that looks like it was designed by engineers of the Soviet military.

They're both good whistles. But I've sold both my Sindt D and my Burke WBB. Have Sindts in other keys though.

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 6:20 pm

I don't think the Burke WBB looks so industrial. The Burke pro sure does.

Yeah, Sindt whistles are top heavy. It IS interesting that he doesnn't tackle the C natural issue. I am planning a visit to John and Ann at some point, so perhaps I'll ask about that.

one-tin-soldier · Post by **one-tin-soldier** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 6:32 pm

I am no expert, but I do play a Burke Al pro D, and it is the one whistle I play the most and will never part with (thanks Doc!), I have never tried a Sindt. All I know is my Burke is pure, my Clarke is breathy and there are lots of others in between. I guess it all boils down to personal taste. Sometimes I like the breathy sound depending on the song being played, other times not. All you can do is try the one you're leaning towards, if you don't like it, sell it here and buy the other.

Cheryl