Keyed flute - pipers held

[Trip-]

I don't have a keyed flute (yet), and started to think about it, though I think I'll trouble with hitting the keys.
Could someone point me to a website where each key and its position are explained? Or maybe you could try and explain here...

[LorenzoFlute]

Don't know about the website, the easiest way is to find somebody that has a keyed flute and try it.
I use piper's grip (both hands) and i can tell you that i have some problems when i try a keyed flute. Long F key and C nat key are usually in the way, and the Bb key is unreacheble. If asked many makers will adjust the key placement so that somebody that uses piper's grip will be able to play.

[Trip-]

The question is how to adjust the keys... I can't know what to tell the maker. ;/

[LorenzoFlute]

The maker should know. Anyway, the Cnat and the long F keys should be moved more on the sides, so that the fingers will not touch them when you play (or you could decide that you don't want them, they are useful but not crucial), and the Bb key (that is usually activated with the left thumb) should be activated with the right hand.

On Terry McGee's site you can see a big picture of a keyed flute and the names of the keys. Try to figure your hands on that flute and you should understand why the keys should be moved (long f and c) or changed (Bb).
http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/irishflute.html

[Trip-]

thanks alot!

PS: I know that each Key costs not little money, why are there 2 F keys? one is not enough?

[Irish Marine]

Hi,
There are two F nat keys to facilitate the playing of different passages. For example, sliding from D to F natural is nearly impossible without the long F key. It gives you some more possibilities really. With that being said, some players play perfectly fine with the short F natural key only. Like was stated already, try some keyed flutes if you can and see what works. If you're getting post-mounted keys, you can opt to leave out long F natural and see if you need it over time. Or you can splurge and get all the keys now so that you have them at your disposal.

Now that I've confused you, good luck

[pipersgrip]

I would ask the maker if he can put keys on for piper's grip. Usually uilleann pipe makers that also make flutes, know how to put on keys for piper's grip. I have asked a few makers, because I use the same grip.

[Trip-]

Any pictures of such a flute anywhere?

[Aanvil]

Hmmm...

I'm not sure of what you are asking but if it has to do with pipers grip vs. key placement

I think you are setting yourself up for problems that don't have the be.

Change your grip a little and get used to playing the keys with the standard placement.

What?

You want to be able to play only a "special" flute when you could play them all.

Unless you have some physical handicap that prevents you from playing with a standard style grip I'd seriously consider

dumping the pipers grip all together.

You have all your fingers right?

Not broken or unbendable?

You don't HAVE to play that way you know.

You should be able to touch all the keys just fine.

They are in those positions for a reason.

Just consider it.

[pipersgrip]

Unfortunately, my L1 finger is double jointed. When I try to play normal, it doesn't move, so that is why I chose pipers over normal. I would just ask the maker you want if they can make keyed flutes for piper's grip. I think the keys are aligned just like uilleann pipes.

[Trip-]

Aanvil, I love my grip
I don't think I should be forced to change it just for the keys... I want the keys to suit my needs instead. Besides, it feels much more traditional when I hold it that way

[hans]

Aanvil, I love my grip
I don't think I should be forced to change it just for the keys... I want the keys to suit my needs instead. Besides, it feels much more traditional when I hold it that way

Perhaps Irish Neo-Traditional, as in the wake of low D whistles.
But the real traditional grip is the "classic" grip giving you maximum dexterity, on traditional 19th century "concert" flutes, i.e. fully keyed tapered bore wooden flutes.

If you wish to conserve your INT feel, you are better not to consider flutes with keys at all.

Of course you are free to ask any flute maker to make you keys suited to your particular grip, and finger length, hand spread and any other personal requirements. No one wishes to force you to change the way you hold your flute.

On the other hand, any addition of keys may require you to change some aspects of your use of fingers, so some change on some level seems inevitable.

Enjoy!
~Hans

[Trip-]

But Hans,
how will I play Laura's without keys? ;/ I wish cross finger would work perfectly.

[matahari_1946]

I play using piper's grip because my fingers are short and I can't use the "classic" grip because I can't get the L3 hole completely covered that way. That being said, I haven't had any trouble with keyed flutes. I've tried a few different makes and I've never found any of the keys to be in the way. The only thing I had done differently on my flute because of the piper's grip is to have the Bb key moved to the right hand. That's not to say I can't get to the left hand Bb key because I've tried it and I can, it's just easier with my right hand.

So Trip, before you have a flute set up special for your grip try out a few keyed flutes to see if you really do need to have the keys modified for your grip. You may find it's not necessary.

[LorenzoFlute]

Aanvil, about a year ago i bought an old german flute (8 keys), and adapted myself to normal grip in order to play that thing. In a month i managed to play in both ways, but the piper's grip felt so natural and gave me so much more freedom that i choose to stick with it. Piper's grip eliminates all the problems related to playing a flute with big holes, and flutes at a lower pich than D, it allows an easier half holing and sliding and facilitates the transition from flute to pipe, if needed. Personally i don't mind too much to not be able to play all the keyed flutes around, as long as i can play MY keyed flute, a custom one.

And anyway people who uses piper's grip usually CAN play most keyed flutes, depending on the maker. The only thing is that they won't be able to use the Bb key (although some use a particular grip that allows them to use it) and the C key (who cares?). Is not too hard to get used to the long F....
And as matahari pointed out, if your fingers are short enough they won't even touch the F and C keys (but this is not my case)