Don't you just love Braveheart?!!

[Key_of_D]

Yes, I'm loyal to my instrument, too. And to my uilleann pipes.

djm

[Coffee]

"Wallace had behind him the spirit of a race as stern and as resolute as any bred among men. He added military gifts of a high order. Out of an unorganized mass of valiant fighting men he forged, in spite of cruel poverty and primitive administration, a stubborn, indomitable army, ready to fight at any odds and mock defeat."

Sir Winston Churchill....A History of the English-Speaking Peoples

I'm not sure Scots were an English-speaking people at the time though. And that we are now is a bit of a pity in my opinion.

[BigDavy]

If you say Anglish speaking, rather than English, then he is likely correct Cofaidh.

David

[Key_of_D]

Well, there's only one thing to do Cofaidh, "invade England".

[amar]

I really loved the movie, after that read many history books on Wallace. Sure, many things in the movie weren't fact, but the movie wasn't meant to be historically correct either. Nonetheless, the dates were correct, 1297 Stirling, 1298 Falkirk, 1314 Bannockburn. Being nominated as Guardian of Scotland (with Andrew Murray). William Heselrig, the Sheriff of Lanark, killing his wife, Marion Braidfoot, spurring Wallace into action by taking his revenge and killing Heselrig, thus becoming an outlaw. To name just a few details.

[Ceili_whistle_man]

Wasn't "Braveheart" another one of those movies where everyone had really great looking teeth?

Yes, hyldemoer, and Mel had one of moviedom's best mullets ever!!

I was at a music festival where there were a couple of Uillean pipe players in attendance. This guy approached one of the pipers and asked him if he knew the theme to Braveheart. Before waiting to hear yeah or nay on the question, he proceeded to add; 'I know it may be a bit hard getting the sound of the Scottish pipes like they are played in the film on the Irish pipes, but give it a try and see how you go'. I nearly choked!!
I thought to myself later that this guy must have known the difference between the two types of pipes to say what he did, but how come he didn't pick it was the Irish pipes used in the theme for the soundtrack to the movie?

[Ceili_whistle_man]

Hey Amar,
You say;

the movie wasn't meant to be historically correct either.

Well, here's a quote from the director himself, Mel Gibson;

We adhered to history where we could, but hyped it up where the legend let us".

Sorry, Mel did not adhere to history, he was very selective in his use of facts.
How does he explain Wallace being tortured and drawn and quartered as Edward 'Longshanks' lies on his deathbed? Gibson would have us believe that Wallace holds on long enough for Longshanks to die before him. That's all fair and well, but Edward Longshanks died two years after Wallace. So my esteem for Wallace has been multiplied one hundred fold! Going on the statement that Mel Gibson 'adhered to history' then we must take it that the torture and execution of Wallace lasted two years. Wallace really was a remarkable man to be tortured for that length of time and only give up when he knew his tormentor had kicked the bucket.
And how about the French Princess Isabella? She didn't marry Edward until nearly two and a half years after Wallace's death. So who was that mature woman Isabella that we see in the movie? Surely it can't be Prince Edward's wife? She would have been between 11 to 13 years old when Wallace was executed.

[WyoBadger]

I enjoy watching Braveheart every few years or so. As with so many other movies, you have to suspend historical knowledge, get into the spirit of the thing, and take it for what it is--not history; just a good story well-told.

The violence didn't particularly bother me in this movie. Some movies glorify violence; some take a "show it like it was" approach to highlight the sacrifice and horror of war. I felt like Braveheart was more the latter.

Of course, it's fun to pick on the historical inaccuracies--the wrong dates, those wierd kilts, the fact that they are wearing kilts in the first place, Wallace portrayed as a highlander, and on and on and on.

[RANT]
The one thing that does drive me NUTS is the order of battle: Line up facing the enemy, get real psyched, then charge like mindless animals and win through sheer weight of testosterone. Early in the movie it is repeatedly stressed that the mark of a true warrior is intellect, not muscle. The real Wallace was a genius of guerilla warfare, and his victory at Stirling bridge was the result of brilliantly conceived and executed tactics (as opposed to "We'll make spears! Hundreds of them!" Good one, Sherlock--it sure took keen wits to come up with the idea of using sharp sticks to stop a cavalry charge!). The real Wallace put the land to use, using the bogs to confine the enemy, using bearfoot infantry and hill pony cav to outmaneuver a superior force, and yes, those long spears to push the armored cav off the causeway into the bog where they would be helpless! Brilliant. It's all SOOOO much more interesting than the way it's portrayed in the movie. Why on earth didn't they get that right? Mel owes me an explanation!!!
[/RANT]

Anyone read "The Wallace" by Nigel Tranter? It's a semi-historical portrayal of Wallace which is a bit heavier on the "historical" and a bit lighter on the "semi." It's a very good read if you're interested: Wallace as a very gifted but flawed human being, rather than Wallace as superhero.

Tom

[djm]

using bearfoot infantry

djm

[Lambchop]

I haven't seen Braveheart.

[emmline]

I haven't seen Braveheart.

Fine. See Rob Roy instead.

[Lambchop]

Ooooh! Yummy!

[djm]

Here's an even bigger one



djm

[cowtime]

Listen to Em, Lamby. She's right. Forget about Braveheart and watch Rob Roy.

[Agio]

Here's an even bigger one



djm

Great...let's start a Fat Bast*rd fan club!