Experienced Boehm flute player needs purchase advice

[Denny]

sold a horse to a Boehm flute player this year.

she stopped by to pickup the horse
and have a go at the flute herd

four different simple system makers
she had no problem any of them

[ElaineT]

It sound to me like you need to learn to play Irish music on your Boehm flute. You will have the embrochure to which you are accustomed, no intonation issues, you can play in all 12 keys, and you can certainly do slides on a Boehm instrument.

Switching instruments is not going to suddenly make you sound Irish, except possibly to the untrained ear. Sounding Irish is all in the rhythm and style, not in the instrument. As someone else mentioned, Joanie Madden is an example of how to sound Irish on a Boehm flute. Paddy Carty is another player who played a classical-style flute (a Radcliffe) in Irish style. I'd suggest you try listening to some recordings of these players to see what they do before you drop a lot of money on a keyed wooden flute.

[Cubitt]

It sound to me like you need to learn to play Irish music on your Boehm flute. You will have the embrochure to which you are accustomed, no intonation issues, you can play in all 12 keys, and you can certainly do slides on a Boehm instrument.

Switching instruments is not going to suddenly make you sound Irish, except possibly to the untrained ear. Sounding Irish is all in the rhythm and style, not in the instrument. As someone else mentioned, Joanie Madden is an example of how to sound Irish on a Boehm flute. Paddy Carty is another player who played a classical-style flute (a Radcliffe) in Irish style. I'd suggest you try listening to some recordings of these players to see what they do before you drop a lot of money on a keyed wooden flute.

Ah, I wondered if anyone would pick up on this point. I entirely agree. When whomever said your playing did not have the right "timbre," what they meant (I think) is that you did not have the Irish style of blowing (often described as a "reedy' tone) and, of course, the Irish ornamentation and embellishments. If you are accomplished on Boehm, I suggest you do a lot of listening to Irish flute and simply imitate what you hear on Boehm. If you are not a dyed-in-the-wool Irish-style player, investing in a keyed wooden flute is not for you, and a keyless flute will only frustrate you. Such is my opinion, anyway.

On the other hand, after you have had more exposure to trad music, you might just find yourself becoming an addict. Then you'll perhaps want a wooden flute, possibly even a keyed one. Be warned, young Skywalker!

[Akiba]

On the other hand, after you have had more exposure to trad music, you might just find yourself becoming an addict. Then you'll perhaps want a wooden flute, possibly even a keyed one. Be warned, young Skywalker!

This is what happened to me. Now I don't think I can go back to metal.

Good advice to give the Boehm Irish a try, though.

jason

[planxtydt]

Hello

People have mentioned Terry McGee previously. I notice that he currently has this flute in stock -

"Boehm-bore, Rounded Rectangle embouchure, Long D foot, 6-key" http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Avail-flutes.htm
I would love to try one of these to experience any tonal differences to a conical simple system flute.

On the wooden headjoint side of things, Peter Noy makes great wooden headjoints for Boehm flutes. Doc has a nice boxwood one for sale in the Irish Flute Store, also there was recently a blackwood one for sale by Dana a few weeks ago. I (and others) can vouch for the quality and satisfaction giving factor of Noy's work!

Keep us posted!

David

[Dana]

Yes, I have a Peter Noy blackwood headjoint for a Boehm flute available. Beautiful, and has a very woody sound. Please PM me if interested.

Dana

[Cathy Wilde]

Elaine speaks the truth when she says a wooden flute is not the silver bullet. Wooden headjoints can help considerably, but alas, it's still possible to sound completely and totally un-Irish on even a conical-bore, wooden simple-system flute. (I know this from long and painful experience )

Many things contribute to "sounding Irish." Rhythm, phrasing, interpretation, ornamentation, articulation, lip, ethos, whisky (that's for Henke) ..... In fact (ironically), one wee hallmark of "sounding Irish" is in how you get around things like spiky fiddly bits and accidentals because 1) not everyone's keys work/ed and 2) even when they did/do work, simple-system keys are a pain (they're pretty much bass-ackwards) so they don't even get used half the time.

Another "authentic" hallmark (subtle, but there) is that the notes on a simple-system flute aren't on the Cooper or Seaman or Whoever scale. And then there are some of the "quasi-blue" notes that come from cross-fingering -- again, no keys required.

So I guess your biggest thing to think about is how far you want to go with this. Since you're busy with multiple instruments, and maybe just wanting to "suggest Celtic" I'd suggest starting with a Delrin or Folk Flute or low whistle and fooling around with slides, rolls, and cross fingering. {Depressingly, I actually use my low whistle the most for hard-core Seltic-type gigs; it pretty much screams "moody atmosphere"}

Alternatively (and maybe more valuable in the long run!), you could take the $250 - $450 such a flute would cost and spend it on recordings of the real deal and see how close you can approach the general spirit with your Boehm. Futz about with your lip, a few cross fingerings, etc. there and see what happens.

Much of this playing was born of experimentation and working with what one had to hand, so if you really want to be authentic ... in theory, you could be halfway there already!



Either way -- and I say this in all sincerity and with the best wishes -- good luck, and welcome to the journey! But be careful; as you can see from this sorry lot it can get pretty consuming!

[jemtheflute]

Who's sorry? I'm not, even if I should be!

[Denny]

well some of us are sorry that yer not sorry

[jemtheflute]

I blame it on too much conspicuous consumption .

[Gordon]

Came in a bit late on this; Jem, Elaine, and Cathy - in that order - hit all the points I was about to add. Changing flutes doesn't make someone sound Irish (or Celtic, whatever that means). Plenty of great ITM players use different embouchure cuts on their flutes, not to mention different sorts of flutes altogether, wood and silver alike. What most defines the sound is the player's embouchure, and at least a reasonable grasp of the music itself.

[Terry McGee]

{Depressingly, I actually use my low whistle the most for hard-core Seltic-type gigs; it pretty much screams "moody atmosphere"}

"Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." - William Butler Yeats

Terry

[daiv]

It sound to me like you need to learn to play Irish music on your Boehm flute. You will have the embrochure to which you are accustomed, no intonation issues, you can play in all 12 keys, and you can certainly do slides on a Boehm instrument.

Switching instruments is not going to suddenly make you sound Irish, except possibly to the untrained ear. Sounding Irish is all in the rhythm and style, not in the instrument. As someone else mentioned, Joanie Madden is an example of how to sound Irish on a Boehm flute. Paddy Carty is another player who played a classical-style flute (a Radcliffe) in Irish style. I'd suggest you try listening to some recordings of these players to see what they do before you drop a lot of money on a keyed wooden flute.

Ah, I wondered if anyone would pick up on this point. I entirely agree. When whomever said your playing did not have the right "timbre," what they meant (I think) is that you did not have the Irish style of blowing (often described as a "reedy' tone) and, of course, the Irish ornamentation and embellishments. If you are accomplished on Boehm, I suggest you do a lot of listening to Irish flute and simply imitate what you hear on Boehm. If you are not a dyed-in-the-wool Irish-style player, investing in a keyed wooden flute is not for you, and a keyless flute will only frustrate you. Such is my opinion, anyway.

On the other hand, after you have had more exposure to trad music, you might just find yourself becoming an addict. Then you'll perhaps want a wooden flute, possibly even a keyed one. Be warned, young Skywalker!

i think it is worth a try, but i dont think it is as easy a try as you might contend. i often encourage people to play irish music on the silver flute, but i dont think it is a very casual endeavor. i cant stand it when people get it wrong: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5t4ehutRd0&NR=1 . it takes a lot of work and effort to make the silver flute sound irish: http://cdbaby.com/mp3lofi/kells-06.m3u (brian mccoy on silver flute).

i think if irish music is someone's passion, i would encourage them to play on the silver flute if they wanted, because it is completely doable. if you are in it just to add a different sound to your repertoire, the years of work needed to make a silver flute get that other sound isnt worth it. i've spent that time. it's worth it to me, because i spent my childhood listening to irish music on the silver flute. for me the boehm flute it is not an instrument i had lying around, but a part of the musical tradition in my family. i dont think it would be worth the effort to someone who isnt passionately wanting to play irish music on the silver flute, who only just wants a different sound. wooden flutes are cool--they challenge your embouchure, and as a flute player they are really fun to own. audiences also notice them instantly, wonder why you are playing a clarinet sideways, and like the sound.

if someone wants to be themselves, and play the silver flute in irish music, i say go for it, but come on... if someone doesnt want to play the silver flute in irish music, is it worth convincing them to?

[Henke]

As you could probably dedect from my first message, I'm with the "it's in the player not the flute" camp.

Daiv: Sure it would take work to make the Boehm flute sound right the irish way. But you don't think it would take work to make the wooden flute sound irish if he is a Boehm flute player? I'd say it would take as much or more work. To sound irish he would still have to change his embouchure approach, his ornamentations and work very hard to get a true sence of the music. He can do that with the Boehm flute, if he got a wooden flute thinking that would help, he would have to do all those things, plus learn a new instrument.
I agree that if he really want to do this right, is dedicated to make this work and not just thinking it would be fun to play some irish stuff, he should probably get a proper wooden flute. But it's not as simple as that, it will take just as much hard work. If he just wants to play some irish stuff and sound good and relatively authentic doing it it would probably be easier to learn to do that on the Boehm flute. I've seen just as many painful examples of classical players picking up the wooden flute and not sounding right as I've heard classical players play trad on the Boehm flute and not sounding right.

I only played Boehm flute seriously for somewhere between 6 months and a year, I came from the Irish wooden flute to the Boehm. I think I sounded more like a trad flute player than a classical Boehm player on that. I didn't sound like I do on a wooden flute, but I probably sounded more like a wooden flute player than I sounded like a trained classical flautist.

Getting a wooden flute and spend months and months working on it to get a sence of the music would help you sound right. But just getting a wooden flute and play the tunes you want on it is only going to waste your money. You still have to put in as much effort wether you do it on the Boehm flute or the simple system flute. Getting a wooden headjoint for the Boehm flute might help, but without radically changing your approach, it won't change the way you sound in any significant way.

Just my 2 drams of
whisky

[jemtheflute]

Just my 2 drams of whisky

Two? At this time if the morning

What was that I said about "conspicuous consumption"? (Though I was of course referring to the Wilde one's consuming passion - or should that be consumptive..... cough, cough..... Perhaps we should all consume flutes? Take a deep breath....... )