What key is it in? Does it matter?

[drewr]

I'll be the first to admit that my knowledge of music theory is dismal, at best. After almost a year of playing, I can learn a tune from the sheet music without any problems, and I'm getting much better at learning by ear, but that has just come from practice and the desire to learn (probably too many) new tunes.

I was at a concert last week where a celtic and old-time group was performing. The instruments involved were fiddle, guitar, bass, and piano. (I've yet to see an Irish flute on any stage in my part of the world, but there's always a fiddle.) The members of the group seemed to make a big issue of what "key" songs were in. They were constantly bantering back and forth: "What key is that in again?" "Are you sure?", etc. (Much of this was for the comic benefit of the audience, as one of the musician was much more elderly than the rest and liked to play the "senile old man" role, but it was obviously a valid topic of discussion among them.)

Anyway, I got to thinking that if I were up there on stage with them and they asked what key this or that flute tune I was playing was in, I'd have no idea how to respond. My experience with session playing is next to nil (alright, completely nil) and I don't know what the importance of the "which key" issue is. I play the songs as I learned them, which is the way I hear them recorded by others on my favorite CDs and/or the way they appear in the sheet music. I can look up on thesession.org or whatever and get the tune info, including which key it's in, but I don't see what value there is in that. Should I memorize what each tune's key is (if I can even figure it out) for the benefit of others? Should I be able to transpose a tune to be able to play it in a different key? (I doubt this would be possible with most tunes I know, since the notes within often encompass everything from middle-B to low-D.) If I was asked to play a tune I knew well in a different key, I'd be hard-pressed to be able to comply without completely re-studying the tune. I play it the way I play it and that's pretty much it because that's the way I've memorized it. If someone can teach their fingers how to play a certain tune well, and then spontaneously play it well with different fingerings on demand, then they're a far better musician than I'll ever be.

What "keys" is a simple system flute capable of, anyway? I know it can't be as simple as "it's a D-flute so it plays in the key of D". How important is this whole "key issue" in normal session playing?

[crookedtune]

Close! The D flute plays easily in D, G and their relative minors, (Am and Em). You can also play in other keys, but may have to do a bit more "half-holing" or "cross-fingering".

And yes, it's true that common tunes are usually played in a set key. This is a convention that avoids confusion (sometimes), and often puts the tune into a key that "falls well under the fingers" for one or more instruments, (typically fiddle). Most of the ITM you'll hear in sessions is in the keys of D and G. Likewise, most "oldtime" jams play the bulk of their tunes in D, G and A.

When someone calls a common tune, but in a different key, simple people like ourselves experience brain misfiring.

[Gabriel]

A keyless flute can be played in the keys/modes of D major, D mixolydian, G major, E minor, E dorian, A dorian, A mixolydian and B minor.

It is normally handy to be able to play G major tunes in A major. There are a few examples that get played in both keys regularly (Foxhunter's, Music in the Glen) and some sessions prefer a key over another. Also, some E and B minor tunes are often played in F# minor, especially if they don't contain the major second (G#). The third tune in the third set on Lúnasa's "Otherworld" is a good example.

If you are asked to play a certain tune on a session, play it in your setting which also includes the key you learned it in, even though it's quite uncommon that thesession.org carries a tune in a different key than the "standard" one.

[Cathy Wilde]

I certainly don't think it would hurt to note what the key sig is on your sheet music and store it in the back of your head; it's not like it takes up that much room. And if, after learning some 20 G tunes you recognize their unique "G" sound (and most of them do have such a sound), then hey presto, you've started to hear G. Then you go on from there; it's a sort of passive ear-training, I suppose, but it works for me, especially when I'm trying ot pick up tunes I don't know. If I can "hear" A minor (which I can) then I have a least three of the notes of the tune I'm trying to learn (A, C nat, E) and can narrow things down from there.

It's also nice to be able to share such info with people if you ever do get to a session, especially if you'd like them to play with you. Good accompanists can hear the key if your playing's clear enough, but it's still polite to share the key if you have it.

So. Not necessary, but it's not that much work and can make you a better musician, so why not?

[talasiga]

.......
What "keys" is a simple system flute capable of, anyway? I know it can't be as simple as "it's a D-flute so it plays in the key of D". How important is this whole "key issue" in normal session playing?

I think the others have answered the question of different key signature coverage of a keyless D flute nicely, esp Gabriel's answer I like.
Now if you just have a simple keyless flute thaen there is no key issue if you are playing music which you have learnt rote from sheet and the stuff is in "normal" keys of that trad.

However you have to realise that other types of instruments have a chromatic range (that is, in effect, they can play anything in any key) whereas your D flute can only give easy access to D/Bmin key signature and G/Emin key signature. So you don't have much choice whereas others might.

Key signature (or mode) nomination CAN help you because it will tell you wheteher you can accompany the piece. Lets say the group you are with play inC major the song "Carrickfergus". You can't do that easily on your flute. But if theyy do it in G or D key sig then you know you can.

Music theory is like pepper. A little bit goes a long way. Too much can upset your digestion.

[Cork]

@ drewr

Only because you asked, the circle of fifths contains the technical information you seek.

Here's a wiki, a good place to start, but there are many other sources.

However, perhaps that could go beyond what's necessary to learn ITM, like maybe way beyond.

[Jumbuk]

A keyless flute can be played in the keys/modes of D major, D mixolydian, G major, E minor, E dorian, A dorian, A mixolydian and B minor.

A "minor" quibble, but technically the thing that makes a dorian or aeolian mode into the "classical "minor" is the presence of the major 7th in at least one direction. In E minor, that's d#, and that's the one note that eludes every keyless flute.

I think it's B aeolian rather than B minor. You can also play in E aeolian as well as E dorian.

I guess to be a complete smart donkey, I could point out that you can also play in G and C lydian, E and B Phrygian and F# and C# locrian.

[awildman]

Since it's not classical music, minor takes on a different meaning. At least colloquially speaking. I know next to nothing about classical. For all intents and purposes aeolian = minor.

Plus, minor is easier to say than aeolian for us unedumacated folk.

[Jumbuk]

Since it's not classical music, minor takes on a different meaning. At least colloquially speaking. I know next to nothing about classical. For all intents and purposes aeolian = minor.

Plus, minor is easier to say than aeolian for us unedumacated folk.

I admitted I was being a smart***. The minor thing bugs me a bit, because I keep running across classically trained musicians who insist on playing d# in the melody and B7 in chords for a trad tune in E dorian.

[awildman]

Is that because the sheet music tells them to do that?

[Flutered]

The members of the group seemed to make a big issue of what "key" songs were in. They were constantly bantering back and forth: "What key is that in again?" "Are you sure?", etc. (Much of this was for the comic benefit of the audience, as one of the musician was much more elderly than the rest and liked to play the "senile old man" role, but it was obviously a valid topic of discussion among them.)

I've heard this sort of thing too in stage performances and I find it a bit grating. I reckon it's thrown in partly to impress the audience and partly a bit of banter between tunes but the banter really should be addressed directly to the audience - anecdote and the like. That sort of 'in talking' on stage is mostly pretentious if you ask me.

But as regards playing with other people and in other keys, the thing is to listen and play along for a few bars and see if it 'sits easily' on the flute. This will happen if the tune is in one of those flute friendly keys mentioned above.
In general when practicing, I think it is a good idea to take tunes you know well and transpose them by ear, say from G to D or whatever. Just try starting in different places and follow the tune. Good ear training!!

[gorjuswrex]

. If someone can teach their fingers how to play a certain tune well, and then spontaneously play it well with different fingerings on demand, then they're a far better musician than I'll ever be.

Not always. A lot of great trad players would struggle with that as well.

In the old days a lot of players would know little about keys and technicalities. Some had the abililty to change to any key just by ear. Not knowing what key they were playing. More likely fiddle than flute players.

A lot of what your asking about is 'technical'. It's one side of playing. Some good players would be well up on it others would not. IMHO at this stage a good abilty with tuning (to konw if your playing in tune) and style and rythm is more important.

Kevin

Kevin

[TheSpoonMan]

Is that because the sheet music tells them to do that?

No, that's just the problem, it doesn't, actually. But it's what they're used to hearing/seeing. I've seen it too.

[Flutered]

Not always. A lot of great trad players would struggle with that as well.

I'm not so sure about that - people I play with seem to be able to handle tunes in different keys fairly handy. At session speed, they might trip up but given a minute or two to noodle the tune and they're away.
I think this ability defines a moment when you truly get more command of your instrument - the brain hears the tune in the relevant key and the fingers know where to go to play along. The two come together.
BTW, not saying I can do it on the fly, but give me a few quiet minutes and it comes easily enough. Well enough, to know when it's easy and enough to know when it's struggle to play in that key.

[Cathy Wilde]

Not always. A lot of great trad players would struggle with that as well.

I'm not so sure about that - people I play with seem to be able to handle tunes in different keys fairly handy. At session speed, they might trip up but given a minute or two to noodle the tune and they're away.
I think this ability defines a moment when you truly get more command of your instrument - the brain hears the tune in the relevant key and the fingers know where to go to play along. The two come together.
BTW, not saying I can do it on the fly, but give me a few quiet minutes and it comes easily enough. Well enough, to know when it's easy and enough to know when it's struggle to play in that key.

Amen. And like you said, if you care enough to learn a tune in several different keys/modes in the first place, it makes you that much better for the tunes you don't know.

It's all part of really learning a tune; so why not? It's just effort -- what's the big deal?

Besides, sometimes it's just plain fun to play a tune in a different key and see what colors it takes on (it's also a handy if slightly cruel way to half-halt speed freaks, overbearing banjo players and lazy ones ) . Plus it refreshes the tune, you know?