Kids, Dale said what he did for your own benefit, because he has seen (as have I), time and time again, that when whistle makers or sellers become too vocal or active on the board they end up running into trouble.
Dale is just trying to help you avoid that end. You really ought to thank him instead of criticising him.
Chris
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ChrisLaughlin on 2002-12-23 18:28 ]</font>
Suggestion to whistlemakers re: this forum.
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Dale
- The Landlord
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In addition to responses here, I've had some by email. I felt confident that by laboriously pointing out that I was making a suggestion, and not a proscription, would mean people wouldn't be offended.
I really am not responding to anyone in particular or to any one thread in particular. If I had a problem with anyone in particular, I would follow my own advice and try to work something out via email.
The reason that I offered this suggestion to whistlesmiths as a suggestion is that I don't think it's a big problem at all, nor do I feel particularly strongly about it. Also, what I am responding to is a matter of taste and it's pretty subtle stuff. As we all know, there are lots of sensitivities on the board about commercial use. By & large, I have been thrilled at the extent to which people have been respectful and courteous and restrained about this issue. It just hasn't been a big problem, in my opinion. I just think that when whistlesmiths engage in a lot of give and take here about their products---they do run some risk of taking advantage of the forum.
I am having to come to terms with the fact that people on this forum differ widely on what they like to see here. Someone wrote that they really enjoy the interaction with whistlesmiths. Others are very much offended by anything that looks remotely like a commercial exploitation of the board. I have had to conclude that there is no way to please everyone and, by extension, no way to avoid making some people upset.
I've been exchanging email with several senior members of the forum to try to make some change in the moderation of the boards. The short version is that I'm running low on time lately and can't moderate the boards very well. So, I've been talking to these people, who I admire and respect and who are veteran members, and I get diametrically opposing views on the whole issue of moderation, including whether moderation is even necessary.
In the meantime, I am told by smart people that I am the equivalent of the "publisher" of this forum and am legally liable for anything that happens here, including libel & slander.
Anyway, I digress.
Back to the original thing. I am just stating my opinion that whistlesmiths would be wise to consider restraint in posting here about their own products. That's all I am saying. I do write as someone with a great deal of experience with this forum. I write as someone who gets a lot of email from people about this forum, sharing their private reactions.
Thanks to all of you and thanks especially for having shown a lot of restraint and courtesy on the board.
Dale
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DaleWisely on 2002-12-23 21:08 ]</font>
I really am not responding to anyone in particular or to any one thread in particular. If I had a problem with anyone in particular, I would follow my own advice and try to work something out via email.
The reason that I offered this suggestion to whistlesmiths as a suggestion is that I don't think it's a big problem at all, nor do I feel particularly strongly about it. Also, what I am responding to is a matter of taste and it's pretty subtle stuff. As we all know, there are lots of sensitivities on the board about commercial use. By & large, I have been thrilled at the extent to which people have been respectful and courteous and restrained about this issue. It just hasn't been a big problem, in my opinion. I just think that when whistlesmiths engage in a lot of give and take here about their products---they do run some risk of taking advantage of the forum.
I am having to come to terms with the fact that people on this forum differ widely on what they like to see here. Someone wrote that they really enjoy the interaction with whistlesmiths. Others are very much offended by anything that looks remotely like a commercial exploitation of the board. I have had to conclude that there is no way to please everyone and, by extension, no way to avoid making some people upset.
I've been exchanging email with several senior members of the forum to try to make some change in the moderation of the boards. The short version is that I'm running low on time lately and can't moderate the boards very well. So, I've been talking to these people, who I admire and respect and who are veteran members, and I get diametrically opposing views on the whole issue of moderation, including whether moderation is even necessary.
In the meantime, I am told by smart people that I am the equivalent of the "publisher" of this forum and am legally liable for anything that happens here, including libel & slander.
Anyway, I digress.
Back to the original thing. I am just stating my opinion that whistlesmiths would be wise to consider restraint in posting here about their own products. That's all I am saying. I do write as someone with a great deal of experience with this forum. I write as someone who gets a lot of email from people about this forum, sharing their private reactions.
Thanks to all of you and thanks especially for having shown a lot of restraint and courtesy on the board.
Dale
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DaleWisely on 2002-12-23 21:08 ]</font>
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Teri-K
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At Dale's request, I'm posting to all the forums a discussion we've had regarding the legal implications for him and Rich as board owners/operators.
Please take the time to consider Dale's and Rich's position in this and the potential harm that could come to them.
****************************************
Hey Dale
I saw your post and it reminded me of some legal information I had read
regarding libel, slander, etc. and message boards and wanted to share with
you.
Of course, this law is still evolving and being decided in the courts almost
as we speak. But, the recent rulings and legal opinions see a message board
similarly to a publication for public consumption. As such, the
moderator/owner serves as a publisher. By allowing libelous or slanderous
statements on the board, in essence, it would be akin to publishing a
magazine or newspaper with an article saying so-and-so did, or is...
Possibly think of the National Enquirer for really blatant examples. I
think this may be the reason some boards forbid the discussion of makers,
products, etc. Another example would be a member's outburst to a maker stating that
their whistle's are garbage (or whatever negative description you wish). The maker could claim that was libelous and bring
suit against the outspoken member and name you and Rich as a parties to the action for distributing the post. Would they win? It would be decided by the courts, or in a settlement. But the point is, you would have to hire an attorney to protect yourself. That could be thousands of dollars.
Ugly situation all this. I can see the maker's point, as it can negatively
impact their livelihood, I can also see the person's belief that they have
the right to speak their mind. But, I suppose we don't have the right to
intentionally harm. Ah, if only society was not so litigious.
Teri
Please take the time to consider Dale's and Rich's position in this and the potential harm that could come to them.
****************************************
Hey Dale
I saw your post and it reminded me of some legal information I had read
regarding libel, slander, etc. and message boards and wanted to share with
you.
Of course, this law is still evolving and being decided in the courts almost
as we speak. But, the recent rulings and legal opinions see a message board
similarly to a publication for public consumption. As such, the
moderator/owner serves as a publisher. By allowing libelous or slanderous
statements on the board, in essence, it would be akin to publishing a
magazine or newspaper with an article saying so-and-so did, or is...
Possibly think of the National Enquirer for really blatant examples. I
think this may be the reason some boards forbid the discussion of makers,
products, etc. Another example would be a member's outburst to a maker stating that
their whistle's are garbage (or whatever negative description you wish). The maker could claim that was libelous and bring
suit against the outspoken member and name you and Rich as a parties to the action for distributing the post. Would they win? It would be decided by the courts, or in a settlement. But the point is, you would have to hire an attorney to protect yourself. That could be thousands of dollars.
Ugly situation all this. I can see the maker's point, as it can negatively
impact their livelihood, I can also see the person's belief that they have
the right to speak their mind. But, I suppose we don't have the right to
intentionally harm. Ah, if only society was not so litigious.
Teri
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Ridseard
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Yes, they recently eliminated the forums on my second favorite web site (jrcigars.com, C&F being my #1 favorite), and their decision to do so was based largely on such legal considerations.In the meantime, I am told by smart people that I am the equivalent of the "publisher" of this forum and am legally liable for anything that happens here, including libel & slander.
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serpent
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The alternative to C&F is an unmoderated newsgroup. I refer you to misc.fitness.weights for a prime example of an unmoderated newsgroup taken over by imbeciles.
Dale, I recommend that you put up heavy duty disclaimers, preferably written, or at least vetted, by your attorney, and do not allow anyone to sign up without an electronic "signature" accepting the terms of those disclaimers. I think that, with such protections, you can probably safely abandon the overseership of the board, and allow it to go where and how it will.
I think anyone who propagates a frivolous lawsuit should be sued!
Actually, public humiliation in the stocks would be much more appropriate. Rotten tomatoes, anyone?
Cheers,
serpent
Dale, I recommend that you put up heavy duty disclaimers, preferably written, or at least vetted, by your attorney, and do not allow anyone to sign up without an electronic "signature" accepting the terms of those disclaimers. I think that, with such protections, you can probably safely abandon the overseership of the board, and allow it to go where and how it will.
I think anyone who propagates a frivolous lawsuit should be sued!
Actually, public humiliation in the stocks would be much more appropriate. Rotten tomatoes, anyone?Cheers,
serpent
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brewerpaul
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Weighing in late, as I'm on the road right now, but I intend to go along with Dale's suggestion. Unless I feel that someone has criticized my whistles based on flawed information, I will stay out of threads related to what I make. I will definitely still participate in many others though.
I will also try to thank people who compliment my whistles privately, but if their profile doesn't have a return address, know in advance that I appreciate all kind words from people who have tried my whistles.
I will also try to thank people who compliment my whistles privately, but if their profile doesn't have a return address, know in advance that I appreciate all kind words from people who have tried my whistles.