Traditional or composed?

[West]

Browsing through the C&F forums, trying to familiarize myself with the people here and the discussions going on, I get the impression that the majority of musicans around here are focused on Irish traditional music. Traditional being the operative word. That makes me feel kinda lonely and I'm basically wondering how many of you guys are using the whistle for music that is not strictly traditional and, well, Irish.

Personally, my main incentive for learning the tin whistle is to use it in my own music. Being able to play a ton of old dance tunes isn't really what I'm interested in. Now, before anyone decides to bite my head off for that statement, let me make a few things perfectly clear:

a) I love ITM

b) I have the highest respect for people who play ITM

c) I realize that in order to play an instrument like the whistle "properly", I will need a good grip of ITM

That said, the tin whistle is just another instrument to me. I approach it the same way I've approached all other instruments I've encountered and taken a fancy to. I started playing the guitar because I wanted to write songs, not because I wanted to play other people's music. My proficiency on keys didn't come from an urge to become a classical pianist. I didn't start singing because I wanted to be a rock-your-socks-off vocalist. And so on and so forth. What I'm getting at is that I'm surprised to see all these discussions about this old jig and that old reel... and very little talk about "I'm working on this new tune, what do you think about this?", ya know?

I dunno, I suppose this post might come off as horribly arrogant. If so, I'm sorry, that's not my intention. Once again, I have the highest respect for traditional music, no matter its origin. But I've always felt it's more fun to write your own stuff than regurgitating old music. Anyone else who feel the same way?

/me ducks

[plunk111]

I play mostly ITM, but I also play the whistle in church (Catholic Mass). If a tune is in D or G, I usually ask the director if I can try it on whistle. He usually says "yes" - sounds great, by the way.

Pat

[mutepointe]

I don't play ITM, I just don't get it. I do like slow airs. I use my whistle and flute as folk instruments. I play at a Catholic Mass too but we transpose a lot of our music. We're going to have a combined choir type of thing soon and I know they're not going to want to transpose anything so I think I'm going to have to buy something in Bb and Eb.

I've gotten used to being disappointed when I open up a sound clip and it's another ITM song. I'd even enjoy a Christmas Carol already.

[dryer]

I've played whistle for a decade and only picked up on Irish trad about 6 months ago. (i now have the 'obsession' )
I had no idea what a cut, roll, or cran was but I'd been doing them all along. The whistle can bring tears to my eyes and chills up my spine.....in any music style.
I play in church, and at party/bar gigs...Guitar and mandolin are my fundamental instruments and I've used whistle in metal rock, church hymns, etc. The whistle can be used like harmonica of flute in just about any type of music.

[Guinness]

Personally, my main incentive for learning the tin whistle is to use it in my own music...

Nothing wrong with that. Good in fact.

...highest respect for traditional music...regurgitating old music...

Contradictory? There are plenty of people who are interested in recreating what they've heard, but this is hardly unique to traditional music. Are they really just regurgitating? Not the good players, no way.

If your "own music" is based on traditional music, then a strong familiarity with the repertoire is important to say the least.

[s1m0n]

There are only two genres in which whistle playing and whistle technique are developed to any significant degree, and those are ITM and kwela.

If you want to play good whistle, you'll need to take a good look at at least one of these.

[Tia]

I learned the guitar for the same reason..moslty, it was eaiser to put music to my songs that way

for the whistle i learned it because I grew up and still listne to celtic music and love the sound of it and also because at the time it was the easiest and cheapest instrument to learn,
but i see where your coming from, and i dont think you need to learn how to play ITM to be able to play what you want, just start playing around with it till you get what you want, and feel free to post songs that your working on, I would love to hear them, also if you look up taxi chain, one guy plays the whislte, nad its kinda jazz/folk music kinda cool

[crookedtune]

There are only two genres in which whistle playing and whistle technique are developed to any significant degree, and those are ITM and kwela.

If you want to play good whistle, you'll need to take a good look at at least one of these.

I agree with the first statement, not the second. I see no reason why a very creative person couldn't blaze new and significant trails with a whistle in any genre of music. You just won't have earlier pioneers to model after.

Someone here very recently quoted Duke Ellington, and it's worth repeating, "If it sounds good, it is good".

[daiv]

when you really learn irish music, and try to find the core of it, you will no longer just think of "that jig and that reel." each tune has something to say, and every person has something different to say with each tune. something as subtle as the way someone holds one note and not another makes it their own.

as you said, you are in it to write music. then go for it! a lot of us are in it to play irish music. i grew up listening to it, and that is what i want to play. i have written a couple tunes, but i make them sound like they are traditional. i just wrote a tune today, but if i played it at a session, no one would realize it was only written the week before.

the problem with writing all your own music is that you cant play it with other people. i like to go to sessions, and during this summer, i often make it to two or three sessions every week. the more tunes you know that other people know, the more fun you can have, if you like that. if you think writing tunes is more fun, the more tunes you write, the more fun you have!

[talasiga]

There are only two genres in which whistle playing and whistle technique are developed to any significant degree, and those are ITM and kwela.
.......

Only two genres that you know of.

[Cayden]

I realize that in order to play an instrument like the whistle "properly", I will need a good grip of ITM

I don't see why that would be true. I am always surprised to see people here proudly proclaim they don't want anything to do with Irish music only to see them a few minutes later fussing over their rolls and ornamentation, which are specific to Irish music but not at all to the whistle as such.

Problem is ofcouse these people don't want to commit to playing a particular type of music well, yet they want to play 'celticky, neo Irish' sounding stuff.

There's no need at all to take the 'Irish' route on the whistle. You're free to play it any way you like, as long as it suits the music you're playing.

[West]

Contradictory? There are plenty of people who are interested in recreating what they've heard, but this is hardly unique to traditional music. Are they really just regurgitating? Not the good players, no way.

A bit contradictory, yeah. OK, "regurgitating" was a bad word. Let me rephrase that: from my perspective, playing old tunes over and over again instead of writing new ones is odd. Not saying that there's anything wrong with it (on the contrary I'm glad that people are keeping this old music alive), I just don't get it. Of course, I find it equally incomprehensible that some musicians devote their lives to playing rock covers.

If your "own music" is based on traditional music, then a strong familiarity with the repertoire is important to say the least.

Absolutely. I realize that. I wasn't trying to play down the importance of being familiar with ITM.

If you want to play good whistle, you'll need to take a good look at at least one of these.

I believe that was what I said, yes.

the problem with writing all your own music is that you cant play it with other people.

That's only a problem if you want to play with other people. Seriously, I gave up the band thing six years ago and these days I only write and record stuff. For me, that's the most enjoyable part of being a musician anyway. I've never been much for the performing bit of it.

OK, let me clarify: I definitely intend to try and learn some traditional Irish tunes. Playing traditional stuff is not my main focus though. My reason for posting this thread was curiosity, as I was a bit puzzled to find so little talk about original material here. Usually on forums where musicians hang out, there's tons of "MY NEW TUNE!" topics and stuff like that.

[West]

I don't see why that would be true. I am always surprised to see people here proudly proclaim they don't want anything to do with Irish music only to see them a few minutes later fussing over their rolls and ornamentation, which are specific to Irish music but not at all to the whistle as such.

Problem is ofcouse these people don't want to commit to playing a particular type of music well, yet they want to play 'celticky, neo Irish' sounding stuff.

There's no need at all to take the 'Irish' route on the whistle. You're free to play it any way you like, as long as it suits the music you're playing.

I wouldn't say rolls and ornamentation are specific to Irish music. Similar things are very common in Swedish and other Scandinavian traditional music, for example.

As for 'celticky, neo Irish' sounding stuff... that's what I do play, yeah.

[Cayden]

I wouldn't say rolls and ornamentation are specific to Irish music. Similar things are very common in Swedish and other Scandinavian traditional music, for example.

'Similar' being the operative word. Yet the conversations always center on irish ornamentation. I think if all you're going to do is play church music, yankee doodle or some half arsed 'haunting' stuff (what is that anyway?) there's no need to play rolls, cranns etc. Because these things are, I repeat, specific to Irish music, not specific to the whistle.

[West]

I think if all you're going to do is play church music, yankee doodle or some half arsed 'haunting' stuff (what is that anyway?)

Uh... is that directed at me?