Inquiries; Begginer in this whole flute playing bizz

chas · Post by **chas** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:06 pm

Lemme add my voice to what others have been saying. Here are some of the things I was given in my first lesson:

With the headjoint, blow short tones. Your goal should be to blow a tone, take a short breath, complete with opening your mouth a little, and get a really sharp attack on the next note. That is, as soon as you start blowing, you should hear sound. As has been said before, hold it with both hands, look in a mirror, mess around with how it meets your lip, etc.

Do the same thing starting on the G note of the lower octave. Try it on B, low D, high D, high G, etc. Once you're getting some repeatable sounds, try long tones on each note.

The other really important exercise is harmonics -- blow a low D, the without lifting any fingers, increase pressure (by closing your lips a little and pushing your lower lip out a little) and blow the second-octave D, then the second-octave A, third octave D, and eventually third octave F#.

Most importantly, don't make it too dull. Do these exercises for a few minutes, try a tune, alternate, but never do so many exercises that you dread playing.

Enjoy!

Trip- · Post by **Trip-** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:30 am

Bothrops wrote:Hi Philip,

Does Mordechai Gordon live near you?

He told me that he tried a Sweetheart flute some days ago, maybe it was your flute?
Anyways, he was delighted, and wanted to buy one. Maybe you could contact him and ask for a few quick lessons, he's an irish flute player too.

Actually that's the first time I hear this name, maybe I forget things. I'm not sure I've seen him in sessions either ;/ We have a small session community here

Thanks for letting me know anyway

Thank you everyone for the encouraging(/discouraging) advice! It is a bit of discouraging that I'm being adviced against the shoulder placement, although it's logical that playing another kind of flute might end up being impossible.
I have tried piper's grip without resting it on the shoulder, but my left thumb, if it had a little mouth - it would scream, because I'm too busy blowing the flute. Flute is certainly moving in my hands without a shoulder rest, probably because my 'grip' is uneven.
When the flute rests on my left thumb, the heavier part is the embouchure hole part. I think if it was the opposite, then I could hold the flute steady with my head/lips, instead of my right 'upper' fingers, which usually aren't there with notes like C#. It feels like the heavier part of the flute should be on the end of it... (Maybe I should glue a stone to it

)

This is what i'm missing to understand in the relaxed grip, because I can't grip it relaxed without it moving from my lips, when every time I play B or C# it just falls down from my lips.

Hope there's an explanation to that

Thank you !

LorenzoFlute · Post by **LorenzoFlute** » Fri May 02, 2008 2:59 am

be sure that you put your left thumb on the outer side of the flute (not under), pressing it toward your lips. try to put your right thumb just a bit on your side pressing your flute just a bit out, and lay down your right pinky.
uncover all the holes: the flute should be balanced.

google "chaurasia", check out the photos and try to put your finger in a similar way...

david_h · Post by **david_h** » Fri May 02, 2008 3:05 am

FWIW, some thoughts from someone who has only been at this for a few months. The flute felt really awkward and unstable to me too. Reminded me of my first driving lesson - the only way I could believe it was possible was that all those other people could do it. Fortunately I could not comfortably rest it on my shoulder.

As 'revision' I have just worked through that set of instructions from jemthflute. They are quite long. I learned from the instructions in Grey Larsen's book, which are slightly different and even longer but lead to the same result. I think they need to be that long, and you can't miss bits out, and it took weeks before I had an (almost) relaxed hold. I think it was worth it. Larsen's instructions end with the direction to keep going back to them.

I found what jemtheflute says about the left thumb particulary helpful - but at the start I would not have believed him that it could hang free.

EDIT: I crossed with Othannen. My comment about the left thumb is not related to his.

Trip- · Post by **Trip-** » Fri May 02, 2008 3:17 am

I would like to note that I found clips on youtube of people holding the flute using pipers grip in the air, no shoulder used. (unlike McGoldrick)

What I noticed is that all of them are using the right pinky to hold the flute in place when all other fingers on that hand are up. This means that the last hole is covered with the middle pad of the finger, and not with the edge pad - like you would do on a low whistle. (at least not like I would do it). I would like to see someone holding the flute without that pinky being used - is it possible even? now I ask myself...

Here are 4 clips, 4 different folks gripping it the piper's way including the pinky finger:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pupQyQBT ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmGsrlZJ ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Guzf-n94 ... re=related (left thumb goes strangely upwards)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76aKx23qd58

So is it all about the pinky? I will have to change the way my right hand works completely then.

kennychaffin · Post by **kennychaffin** » Fri May 02, 2008 3:56 am

Othannen wrote:....

google "chaurasia", check out the photos and try to put your finger in a similar way...

That's seems a very weird way to hold the flute he has....

and as far as "resting the flute on your shoulder"....I just don't get that at all. Doesn't seem a good way to play at all.

KAC

LorenzoFlute · Post by **LorenzoFlute** » Fri May 02, 2008 4:03 am

So is it all about the pinky? I will have to change the way my right hand works completely then.

yes this should be the answer. actually my right pinky never moves from its place, unlike the guys on the clips: it just lays on the flute, relaxed. be sure that the fingers (the pinky, and all the others) are relaxed, or you will easily get some bad habits (such as moving the pinky way too up, like in the third clip). good luck!

kenny, what's weird in his grip? oh and remember that he plays a cylindrical flute in low B, with enormous holes...

kennychaffin · Post by **kennychaffin** » Fri May 02, 2008 4:11 am

Trip- wrote:I would like to note that I found clips on youtube of people holding the flute using pipers grip in the air, no shoulder used. (unlike McGoldrick)

What I noticed is that all of them are using the right pinky to hold the flute in place when all other fingers on that hand are up. This means that the last hole is covered with the middle pad of the finger, and not with the edge pad - like you would do on a low whistle. (at least not like I would do it). I would like to see someone holding the flute without that pinky being used - is it possible even? now I ask myself...

Here are 4 clips, 4 different folks gripping it the piper's way including the pinky finger:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pupQyQBT ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmGsrlZJ ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Guzf-n94 ... re=related (left thumb goes strangely upwards)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76aKx23qd58

So is it all about the pinky? I will have to change the way my right hand works completely then.

I don't think my little finger will bend the way that second one does.

I think it's really what works for you given the various styles I"ve seen. Certainly there are required mechanics involved - i.e. you must keep the embouchure working and you must not drop the instrument and you must be able to efficiently and correctly position the fingers. Easy, right?

After several days working with my Tipple it is getting easier both to make/keep the tone and to play. I've been "forcing" my right hand make the stretch and it seems to be working fine, still a very long way to go, but definitely getting more comfortable with it. I'm also eagerly anticipating the arrival of my Dixon three-piece polymer today....

KAC

kennychaffin · Post by **kennychaffin** » Fri May 02, 2008 4:14 am

Othannen wrote:
So is it all about the pinky? I will have to change the way my right hand works completely then.
yes this should be the answer. actually my right pinky never moves from its place, unlike the guys on the clips: it just lays on the flute, relaxed. be sure that the fingers (the pinky, and all the others) are relaxed, or you will easily get some bad habits (such as moving the pinky way too up, like in the third clip). good luck!

kenny, what's weird in his grip? oh and remember that he plays a cylindrical flute in low B, with enormous holes...

Nothing particularly with the grip, more the angle of the embouchure and flute.

Just looks very weird to me. Heck I'm having enough trouble getting my fingers working on this Tipple.

KAC

Trip- · Post by **Trip-** » Fri May 02, 2008 5:39 am

Folks!
This morning, after viewing all these videos, I went and took the flute in my hands - this time using that pinky. Started messing around with the right position of my right hand (a new position for me) and viola! I can't believe it, but I could rather easily play all the notes in the scale, including C# without the flute moving away from my lips!

This is amazing to me, I even laughed to my excitment.

For an hour I played like that, concentrating on getting the right tone/embouchure - then I tried to play without the pinky, and my pinky automatically returned to its position, like autopilot... increddible I tell ya.

So basicly I go from can't play without the shoulder at all, to playing without the shoulder, with a rather 'ok' tone, in a matter of an hour! And that's thanks to that pinky! Someone just had to tell me about that pinky in the first place

Difference is night and day, period.
I have to say that my pinky was hurting after all the gripping drama I put it through the last hour, but I'm pretty sure it's gonna be practicing a relaxed motion from now on.

One thing that became a bit hard with the new RH grip is a roll on E, tapping the D hole. I can do it, but it doesn't *clap-tap*, like it used to with the end of a finger.

I'm starting a journey and letting my shoulder just be a shoulder, not a resting pad.
Thank you so much.

cheers,
Philip

kennychaffin · Post by **kennychaffin** » Fri May 02, 2008 6:03 am

Trip- wrote:Folks!
This morning, after viewing all these videos, I went and took the flute in my hands - this time using that pinky. Started messing around with the right position of my right hand (a new position for me) and viola! I can't believe it, but I could rather easily play all the notes in the scale, including C# without the flute moving away from my lips!

This is amazing to me, I even laughed to my excitment.

For an hour I played like that, concentrating on getting the right tone/embouchure - then I tried to play without the pinky, and my pinky automatically returned to its position, like autopilot... increddible I tell ya.

So basicly I go from can't play without the shoulder at all, to playing without the shoulder, with a rather 'ok' tone, in a matter of an hour! And that's thanks to that pinky! Someone just had to tell me about that pinky in the first place Difference is night and day, period.
I have to say that my pinky was hurting after all the gripping drama I put it through the last hour, but I'm pretty sure it's gonna be practicing a relaxed motion from now on.

One thing that became a bit hard with the new RH grip is a roll on E, tapping the D hole. I can do it, but it doesn't *clap-tap*, like it used to with the end of a finger.

I'm starting a journey and letting my shoulder just be a shoulder, not a resting pad.
Thank you so much.

cheers,
Philip

KAC

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Fri May 02, 2008 6:11 am

Trip- wrote:One thing that became a bit hard with the new RH grip is a roll on E, tapping the D hole. I can do it, but it doesn't *clap-tap*, like it used to with the end of a finger.

I'm not sure from your posts (and I haven't looked at the vid links given) what your new R hand position is, Trip, but that doesn't really matter: the difficulty with the R3 tap is indeed due to R4 being anchored down. It doesn't need to be - when R1 &2 are down on their holes, you can lift R4 off the tube/Eb key and that will free up the (tendon-share connected) movement of R3 for your taps and rolls. As you've already discovered, as you move off up-scale, R4 will "home" back in to the tube/key without much conscious effort. (On Boehm flutes and in classical technique on simple system keyed flutes, R4 is on and off the Eb key all the time anyway.)

Sounds like you're making good progress. Good man!