English Traditional Music

[Clive Brown]

I have been whistling for about three years, playing chiefly ITM. Lately, I have been playing much more English Traditional Music (ETM?), after all, I am English. I can find very little (in fact none at all), material relating to English tunes. However, I read somewhere that the English style benefits from much greater tonguing than one would usually incorporate in Irish tunes.

Is this correct ?

Any observations or comments ?

Many thanks from East Tisted, a cold and wet village in Hampshire !

[avanutria]

Hi Clive,

I'll tell my husband about your question - he is Martin Milner on this message board and plays almost exclusively English music, though he plays fiddle and melodeon more than whistle these days.

[chas]

I've been playing a lot from the complete Playford book, and have gotten a little instruction. The style depends almost not at all on the ornamentation of ITM, so, yes, tonguing is much more prevalent. But don't go tonguing every note or anything, there's still a lot of slurring. Most importantly, though, is the phrasing and flow of the music.

The Baltimore Consort put out an album of Playford tunes and songs, which has (probably) historically accurate settings of the pieces.

[falkbeer]

I have been whistling for about three years, playing chiefly ITM. Lately, I have been playing much more English Traditional Music (ETM?), after all, I am English. I can find very little (in fact none at all), material relating to English tunes. However, I read somewhere that the English style benefits from much greater tonguing than one would usually incorporate in Irish tunes.

Is this correct ?

Any observations or comments ?

Many thanks from East Tisted, a cold and wet village in Hampshire !

Hi Clive,

I play some english tunes too and a lot of swedish folk music. And my impression is that there is more tonguing in english and swedish folk music when played on a wind instrument. But tonguing varies a lot among ITM players a lot. Some tonguing a lot and other hardly never. My own theory is that it is the closeness to the bagpipe tradition that has influenced tin whistle playing in Ireland and the highlands.

[devondancer]

Hi, Clive,
I used to live in Hampshire, in Fleet! Knew E. Tisted. Small world. Here in Devon is wet and windy too, today!
I play almost all English music, with some Scottish, American and a smattering of ITM to keep my hand in. I play folk songs and folk dance music, Playford and other styles, plus hymn tunes and anything else I like the sound of! I adjust my style, and the amount of tonguing, to the music and / or the needs of the dance. Some need more emphasis than others, for example. I love our music.

[Key_of_D]

I've read Smash The Windows (single jig or slide) was possibly of English origin? How true that is of course remains a mystery for myself, I just like the tune.

[MTGuru]

I read somewhere that the English style benefits from much greater tonguing than one would usually incorporate in Irish tunes.

Yes, that's my casual impression, too. Or more accurately, that English dance music tends to favor a more pointed, "stotty" aesthetic than the flow usually associated with ITM. And that's across the board, with melodeon and fiddle styles leading the way and whistle style following. Players like Robin Williamson and Vin Garbutt seem to exhibit this. And many English dance tunes seem akin to Irish hornpipes, barndances and polkas, which also encourage a more pointed approach. It's not just the tonguing, but the whole feel and rhythm of the tunes. Maybe there's some influence from English tabor piping style, too.

A related example might be the whistle style of Aberdeen and the Scottish Northeast, with Alex Green as a practitioner. His whistle playing is certainly more pointed and tongued than anything you'd expect in ITM.

[s1m0n]

Jeremy Barlow, editor of the Faber edition of the collected Playford tunes and leader of early music group the broadside band, claims that recorders rather than transverse flutes are the 'authentic' period wind instruments for this repertoire.

If that's the case, then it's not difficult to guess that a great deal of tonguing was going on.

[Clive Brown]

Very helpful, thanks to all for your responses


Clive

[okewhistle]

I certainly find that English music comes more easily to me. It may be because it is slower, or a bit less sophisticated. Mainly I think it's because I am English!

I have found Dave Mallison's "English Pub Session Tunes" a useful collection, although it contains quite a lot of Irish tunes as well. Most of the stuff they play here in Devon is in there.

My whistle teacher used to tell me to stop tonguing everything or I would make ITM sound like morris tunes. He meant it as a warning, but perhaps if you want to play morris tunes it is good advice!

[Martin Milner]

Hi Clive,

regarding tunes, I highly recommend Dave Townsend's English Dance Music Volumes 1 & 2. That'll give you 260 tunes to be going on with.

There's also the Nick Barber books Lovely Nancy and Bonny Kate, now combined under the title Nick Barber's English Choice. There are 2 cds available to hear the tunes played. There will be some overlap between this and the previous set, but the Nick Barber book contains a greater selection of modern tunes.

The Dave Mallinson series mentioned by Okewhistle also includes English Pub Session Tunes and Popular English Session Tunes. I've got all three, but have used the Dave Townsend books more.

All these are available on Hobgoblin Music's website http://www.hobgoblin.com/local/contfram.htm

Do search around on the net as you may find them a pound or two cheaper elsewhere.

There is a specific Hampshire Dance tunes book, which I haven't got but might be fun for you.

There are also various Morris Dance tunebooks espcially for tunes currently used in Morris dancing, but if you're not playing for Morris these are probably unnecessary. Many tunes will appear in more than one book, and in more than one version.

Regarding style, ETM isn't driven by the need for speed that is wrecking much of ITM (for me), maybe because it's mostly played by people who also dance and play for dancing. I've played for both English Country Dances and Morris Dancing, and a comfortable dance tempo with a solid beat is much more important than all the twiddly bits that Irish music seems to require.

[Clive Brown]

Martin,

Thanks for your comments. I have just started on the Nick Barber book and Cd's and am finding them very helpful. I shall move on to the others as I progress.

As an aside, I am fairly new to sessions, and am finding I tend to get lost when drowned out by the greater volume of other instruments. I am hoping this will change with time

Clive

[talasiga]

......Regarding style, ETM isn't driven by the need for speed that is wrecking much of ITM (for me), maybe because it's mostly played by people who also dance and play for dancing.
......

Do you consider the Clare style ITM as a style not within the much of ITM which is in the "wrecking"?

[Cayden]

Much of the music Martin dismisses is actually played for dancers by people who are well able to dance a set. The difference is they don't go around waving hankies at eachother while doing it.

Also note when playing for dancers, the dancers are usually the ones pushing for more speed.

[talasiga]

Much of the music Martin dismisses is actually played for dancers by people who are well able to dance a set. The difference is they don't go around waving hankies at eachother while doing it.

Also note when playing for dancers, the dancers are usually the ones pushing for more speed.

Are you talking about dancers in County Clare? Might that then turn towards my earlier question?

And do you have a problem with hankies? Perhaps you feel a little threatened by them?