wooden whistle tech

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chrisp
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wooden whistle tech

Post by chrisp »

What would be the average wall thickness of wooden whistles, and how does thickness affect it?
Also what would be the normal wall thickness of metal tuning slides, and what would be the preferred metal?
And last question, does the wall thickness of the body affect the responsiveness of the whistle?
talking about high D's here

thanks in advance :-?
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Feadoggie
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Post by Feadoggie »

chrisp wrote:What would be the average wall thickness of wooden whistles
chrisp, wall thickness varies from maker to maker according to their design. It's just one of many variables that each maker determines during their design process. I am reluctant to quote an average thickness. Wall thickness itself does not determine responsiveness, IMHO. Hole size and efficiency is a big factor, again, IMHO.
chrisp also wrote:Also what would be the normal wall thickness of metal tuning slides
These can vary too. Some makers draw their own tubes, some order custom drawn tubes but a number use stock sizes of K&S brass tubing. It is available from here.

http://www.specialshapes.com/brasstubin ... roduct=014

There are other online sources as well. It is also widely available here in the US through many hobby and craft shops. The wall thickness I use is the .014" tubing for the high D's. The diameter you use depends on the bore size of your design. You want the inside diameter of the smaller tube to match your bore diameter ideally. K&S is telescoping tubing, meaning that each successive size fits neatly inside the next larger size. Even with that, the two tubes slide too easily to hold the tuning position in place. Most makers persuade the inner tube to be a tighter fit. "Persuade" in this case means you expand the diameter of the inner tube a little bit for a firmer fit by whatever means works for you. You could also use a wax, like beeswax, to make the fit a little more firm.

Hope that helps.

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chrisp
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Post by chrisp »

Thanks for the information :)

surely the body's wall thickness affects something? I haven't seen any whistles as fat as me yet :D

Excuse my ignorance but what is IMHO?
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Post by OBrien »

IMHO ="In my humble opinion"

The wall thickness of my wooden whistles is around 2.4 mm.
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chrisp
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Post by chrisp »

WOW.... lovely whistles O'Brian
how long have you been making?
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Post by brewerpaul »

My whistles have an ID of .500",OD of .656"
The tuning slides are thin walled telescoping brass tubing, 9/16", and 17/32"
Note that these sit in bored recesses in the wooden wall of the whistle.
Got wood?
http://www.Busmanwhistles.com
Let me custom make one for you!
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Post by OBrien »

My slides are the same dims as Paul's. The ID of the 17/32 is 0.5 in., the same as my whistles.

I've been making whistles since the 80's, but wooden ones for the last 4 or 5 years.
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chrisp
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Post by chrisp »

There is something about these beautiful wooden whistles.
They are both tactile and a piece of art.
got to have a go myself, and it's fantastic to get this feedback from people that put the heart into their work.
there's nothing like making something beautiful with your hands and to then hopefully hear how beautiful it sounds.

Thanks to you all
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chrisp
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Post by chrisp »

I've got my hans on some 10 year old laburnum.
Does anyone know if it is still poisonous after ten years?
It's a beautifully grained wood and heavy :-?
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Post by highwood »

A thicker wall means the hole is deeper which reduces its effective size (unless undercut) and so a whistle with thicker walls will have larger holes all other things being equal. This is something to watch out for even when using plastic plumbing tubing as though the OD is accurate (it has to be to macth the fittings) the ID varies.

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Post by highwood »

Would it be this Laburnum?

From
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/cons ... aburan.htm

Scientific Name
Laburnum anagyroides
Common Name
Golden chain tree
HIGHLY TOXIC, MAY BE FATAL IF EATEN!

Characteristics
Family
Fabaceae
Plant Description
Small, deciduous tree; leaves alternate, long-stalked with 3 leaflets; flowers pea-like, golden, in long drooping clusters; fruit a long, flattened pod.
Origin
Europe.
Where Found
Landscape as cultivated, woody flowering vine or small tree.
Mode
Ingestion.
Poisonous Part
All parts.
Symptoms
Nervousness, stomach and intestinal irritation with nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea; irregular pulse, convulsions, coma; may be fatal.
Toxic Principle
Cytisine, an alkaloid.
Severity
HIGHLY TOXIC, MAY BE FATAL IF EATEN!

Does not look like something I would want to turn or put in my mouth!
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chrisp
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Post by chrisp »

I knew it was poisonous, and certainly wouldn't want to eat it whilst it were living. I wondered if it were still poisonous being dead(seasoned) for ten years?
I guess it wouldn't be a wise thing though.
Just out of interest, are all woods that are used for whistle/flute safe to consume whilst living?
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Post by highwood »

I don't know the answer to that.

Edible and contact safe are different things, and just to throw something else in the mix walnut sawdust can make some people sick but it is commonly used for salad bowls as is the oil for oiling wooden bowls and utensils.

Best to stay away from Very toxic things and try to minimize your intake of any sawdust (or other fine dust - flour is not good for lungs either)

Bill
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chrisp
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Post by chrisp »

That's a good point Highwood,
I bet the sap of a lot of woods are not nice to consume, including well known woods for whistles. PVC and some plastics are not good to breath in.

What about birch? Birch in this region of Norway grows very slowly due to the climate and creates a tight grain.

Rowan (mountain ash) grows slowly here too. It would be nice to try a native wood. Any thoughts on these two?
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Post by Thomas-Hastay »

A.H.Benade and Lew Paxton Price recommend a wall thickness of at least 1/8th inch at the voicing or it will be very difficult to generate oscillations. I find this true in my experience.

The thickness of the Tube Material at the voicing (ID to OD) can average between 1/16th and 5/8ths inches, but this is not a set "rule". Sound waves travel through solid materials faster than air (Young's Modulus). This means that the more mass/atoms a material has, the faster sound will travel in it. Hardness is also a factor (harder/faster).

Example: A concert german silver flute is more dense than a wooden flute and will favor high frequency harmonics. The wooden flute will attenuate more of these frequencies in it's softer mass and favor low frequency harmonics.

I find it best to keep the thickness at the toneholes to a minimum to reduce any flat tone at higher registers with more internal pressure. Higher aircolumn pressure pushes up into deep toneholes and increases internal cubic volume leading to flat tones. I try to stay at least a 16th though, or the finger pads intrude into the bore.

Tuning Slides: The prefered metal is German Silver (60/40-copper/sterling silver). This metal is cheap and once oxidized (reticulation) and polished, it resists corrosion. Bronze and Brass are used, but these copper alloy metals produce toxic verdigris (green copper oxide) when corroded.

You didn't mention "Bore Perturbation" but... Restricting the bore just above a tonehole will increase aircolumn velocity and raise pitch. Conversely, increaseing the ID will do the opposite (E = 0.5mv2).

The combinations are Legion here, so I have generalized. questions? vengeful retortes? ;)
Last edited by Thomas-Hastay on Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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