better flute for better flutist?

[LorenzoFlute]

hi all,
i was thinking, a maker that makes a flute for a famous flutist will surely put all his efforts in his creation, so that everybody will say "wow his flute is really good! who made it? i want one too!". I'm sure that the olwell flute matt molloy has must be one of the best flute on earth, much better than an average olwell...
And what about tom doorley's Seery? Seery's flutes became popular also because he was playing one, but his particular flute is probably the maker's masterpiece. Same should be the Forbes kevin crawford played for the site, and so on.
Now, if we order a flute from a great maker, how many possibilities do we have to get one of his good ones, instead of one his bad ones (that would anyway be a nice flute, but not a great one)?
Are we going to not get a superb flute only because we are beginners or anyway not professional flutists?

[Gordon]

hi all,
i was thinking, a maker that makes a flute for a famous flutist will surely put all his efforts in his creation, so that everybody will say "wow his flute is really good! who made it? i want one too!". I'm sure that the olwell flute matt molloy has must be one of the best flute on earth, much better than an average olwell...
And what about tom doorley's Seery? Seery's flutes became popular also because he was playing one, but his particular flute is probably the maker's masterpiece. Same should be the Forbes kevin crawford played for the site, and so on.
Now, if we order a flute from a great maker, how many possibilities do we have to get one of his good ones, instead of one his bad ones (that would anyway be a nice flute, but not a great one)?
Are we going to not get a superb flute only because we are beginners or anyway not professional flutists?

Certainly, some flutes made for well known players (and often personal friends of the maker) are tweaked to specified styles or desires by that player.
But - having said that - have you ever heard one of these players pick up a "stock" flute and play them? Not a lot lacking there... It's more often the player, and not some magic pill built into their flutes, that makes them what they are. A "typical" Olwell is generally a damn good flute, as are many of the known makers' flutes. If you happen to have the opportunity to get to know a maker, sit in their shop, you, too, could have your flute tweaked to your personal style and likings. Otherwise, you might just have to settle for their standard flutes - which, in the case of Olwells, Hamiltons, Grinters, Murrays, etc., are usually pretty good. The idea that there are makers out there cranking out inferior flutes for beginners is somewhat silly. OTOH, some of the flutes you mention are made more for beginners - easier embouchure, etc., and a pro or experienced player might not prefer them (over their own flutes) for very different reasons than what you're suggesting.

[Denny]

I'm sure that the olwell flute matt molloy has must be one of the best flute on earth, much better than an average olwell...

It might be more tailored to Matt's preferences.

I'm sure that Pat would be more than willing to discuss the nuances and compromises to his standard design with you prior to making a flute for you in order to incorporate your particular preferences.

Now, if we order a flute from a great maker, how many possibilities do we have to get one of his good ones, instead of one his bad ones (that would anyway be a nice flute, but not a great one)?

Whatever makes you think that a "great maker" would allow a substandard product to leave his shop?
Has he no pride in his work? How does he become a "great maker" with that kind of work ethic?

[Liney Bear]

I don't think that Patrick Olwell would let a flute out of his shop that he himself was not satisfied with.

His pride in his work is extraordinary. The risk of getting a sub-standard flute from his shop is basically nil, not because he makes better flutes for better players and lesser flutes for lesser players, but again, because he holds himself to incredibly high expectations.

As someone already mentioned, if you'd like special considerations, I'm sure he'd be plenty happy to work with you to get you something you'll like.

Gordon

[azw]

That's is an interesting question.

It made me think about what happens when I develop websites. The "better players" do get better websites. The difference isn't in what I'll do for them. The difference occurs because the "better players" are understand and appreciate what makes a website work better as a marketing tool. In the end, all of my website owners get what they want. Although I'll explain the choices in detail, some make what I see as foolish decisions. Of course, in some cases, they may be right and I could be the fool!

Now back to flutes. I'm not a flute master. But I can imagine that a top notch performer would know better what suits them best and be talk about it.

Now, that's clearly not me. I'd just take the maker's advice. I do wonder if makers make more forgiving flutes for the average person. That'd be fine with me!

[peeplj]

I don't think that Patrick Olwell would let a flute out of his shop that he himself was not satisfied with.

His pride in his work is extraordinary. The risk of getting a sub-standard flute from his shop is basically nil, not because he makes better flutes for better players and lesser flutes for lesser players, but again, because he holds himself to incredibly high expectations.

As someone already mentioned, if you'd like special considerations, I'm sure he'd be plenty happy to work with you to get you something you'll like.

Gordon

I think this is exactly correct.

Makers like Olwell and Hamilton didn't get their reputation based upon just a few flutes made for famous players; also, consider the converse: unless you are a maker who already has a stellar reputation, your flutes are not going to make their way into the hands of the famous players.

Every hand-made flute is different, but when you're talking about these sorts of makers, no flute that doesn't meet very stringent criteria will ever find its way out of their shop.

--James

[Cayden]

I think this is exactly correct.

Makers like Olwell and Hamilton didn't get their reputation based upon just a few flutes made for famous players; also, consider the converse: unless you are a maker who already has a stellar reputation, your flutes are not going to make their way into the hands of the famous players.

Every hand-made flute is different, but when you're talking about these sorts of makers, no flute that doesn't meet very stringent criteria will ever find its way out of their shop.

--James

Non of this is contrary to the notion an instrument maker will go the extra mile when the customer is a highly accomplished player. And you know: they do exactly that.

[cocusflute]

No esteemed maker I have ever known personally-- Wilkes, Olwell, Hammy, Watson, Byrne, Doyle, et. al. -- would let a flute leave his shop unless he thought it was a great flute, illustrative of his best work. Each maker makes every flute as if were to be his own. If extra attention is to be paid to the flute it will be in the silver-work, or in some decorative item, not in the way it plays. Liney Bear is absolutely right.

Matt Molloy's flute is indeed a terrific flute -- but no better than anyone else's 6-key Olwell Pratten design from the same period.

[dow]

I seldom get my dander up on here, but here goes:

/enter soapbox mode.

A craftsman is just that. A craftsman. His reputation is only as good as his last job, as most of them depend on word-of-mouth for marketing. Sure, maybe Olwell gets some publicity because Molloy plays one, but he almost certainly gets more notice because the other guy down at the session plays one than because Mr. Famous Player does. He, and the other great makers that we hear about stake their livelihood on each instrument that they make. A good rule of thumb is that a satisfied customer will tell a couple of people, while a dissatisfied customer will tell everyone he can, every chance he gets.

The pride is in producing a product that is worthy of praise, not in having great Mr. Famous Player play your instruments, although that can be very gratifying. If a maker were to make instruments of higher grade for the famous people and of inferior grade for the average player, then word would get around, and how would you like to know that maker B turns out mediocre work unless you're a real name? Would you buy from him, knowing that you, as a paying customer, weren’t worth his best efforts? I sure wouldn't.

When you take on a contract to produce something for a paying client, whether it's Kevin Crawford, or Cathy Wilde or me or Little Joe the Wrangler, you're putting your name out there (not that I put myself in the same bucket skill or talent-wise with Kevin or Cathy). Your name is on the product. If it's sub-standard, then you will be known as sub-standard in your dealings, and then you'll be flipping burgers for your living.

If you go to a maker with the attitude of, "I know that you won't work for me as hard as you work for the big boys," then, in my opinion, you’ve got no business ordering from that maker in the first place. This type of attitude implies that you don’t trust the craftsman. If you go in with that attitude, and the maker gets wind of it, then you probably stand a fair chance of him refusing your order. What you do when you have and express that attitude is call the character of the maker into question, and that, Sir, is unacceptable. It's about trust. You trust them to make you a good product, or you don't. If you don't, then go elsewhere.

/exit soapbox mode.

[daiv]

the only special treatment that i could think famous player would get is that they may very well get bumped up on the list for a replacement if theirs got stolen, especially if that flute was their main flute.

[peeplj]

Part of what may be confusing the issue is that these makers sometimes customize their work by special request.

Mat Molloy has talked in interviews about how Olwell can customize a flute to change the strength of this note or maybe drop the pitch just a bit on that one, that sort of thing.

Any of the top-line makers can do such things; you don't have to be a Molloy to get such custom work done.

However, you do have to know what you are asking for and why. Each of these makers have worked out and fine-tuned designs that carefully balance the different aspects of the flute; if you are asking them to depart from that design by any great degree, they may be very reluctant, and for good reason.

--James

[Cathy Wilde]

FWIW, Kevin Crawford got his Forbes after he played mine, and I'm anything but a great player! But I agree with the craftsmanship commentary and the other comments above -- these makers wouldn't be getting commissions from great players like Molloy if they weren't great makers.

[sbfluter]

In addition to all the fine commentary I would like to add that hidden within the assumption that a better player has a better flute is the assumption that if you want to play better you must acquire a better flute.

This belief that you have to keep chasing a better instrument is terribly limiting because it keeps you wasting your time when you could be practicing your flute.

Most people would be amazed how good the flute they have already is. I'm certain that I'll continue to have bad embochure days, my ornaments will be just as bad as they are now, and I'll continue to flub up every single tune I try to play even if I had the best Olwell flute that he ever made.

[Gordon]

I've already posted on this, but I'll weigh in again. Clearly, a top player will know better what it is they're after, and make this clear(er) to the maker than a beginner, or even an intermediate player, can or will. They may even have more time (and money) to visit and sit with a maker than the average player does.
But these tweaks and preferences will only be to their advantage - the same changes may or may not help another player, regardless of their play level. We all have different approaches - it's probably much more important to find the maker who suits your style in general than to worry about little adjustments here and there; if you know what you are looking for, any decent maker can and will, happily, accomodate you.

I do think that top players have more likelihood to get exactly the flute they are after, especially when you get into one developed for that player, specifically. But - as everyone here has said - no reputable maker will deliberately short-change a paying customer, and allow an inferior flute with his/her name on it to leave their workshop. Remember, any customer is a potential famous player, or will rub elbows with one. When I used to play in NYC, I played alongside some really reputable players, many of whom played my flute, and I theirs; it's really not a good business move to let a P.O.S. out of the workshop on the idea that only an amateur will play it.

[Liney Bear]

Most people would be amazed how good the flute they have already is.

I'll definitely agree with that sentiment.

A number of years ago, I was playing a decent-but-not-great keyed flute when I was introduced to a famous player who you'd all know. He proceeded to get the most powerful foghorn blast I'd ever heard in person on my very modest flute.

I learned a lot that day.